Bouncing stems with mastering processing

Hey guys,

 

So I'm using Ozone 8 on the Stereo Out of a track I'm working on and my client wants me to provide them with stems for the track. What I would like to be able to do is bounce out stems, so that when they are combined, the result sounds exactly the same as how my complete track with mastering sounds now.

 

Is this possible to do?

 

My understanding is that the mastering plug-ins will react differently if I'm simply soloing stems, so I'm not sure how to achieve this.

Is this possible to do?

No, not really, or it could become quite complex quickly. For example one issue is the side chain signal triggering dynamic processors such as compressors or multiprocessors or limiters... you could create a whole mix to send it to the sidechain even when the plug-in is processing only one stem. But honestly I doubt of the utility of such stems, as the point of having individual stems is to have flexibility, so the instant the client changes the levels or panning or EQ of the stems, all bets are off and your "mastering" processing no longer makes any sense.

 

My understanding is that the mastering plug-ins will react differently if I'm simply soloing stems, so I'm not sure how to achieve this.

Your understanding is correct.

Thanks for the response David. I see what your saying. I guess my concern is that I feel that my mix really relies on the 'glue' provided by the Stereo-Out processing.

Thanks for the response David. I see what your saying. I guess my concern is that I feel that my mix really relies on the 'glue' provided by the Stereo-Out processing.

I hear you. However by delivering stems, you're giving them the flexibility of mixing whatever they want to the stereo out, so you can't possibly determine what processing the stereo out needs. What you hear as 'glue' on your end may very well end up sounding like odd pumping effects and unexplained volume drops on their end.

I understand your problem and I hate doing stems for that and many other reasons. But, one "solution" might be to make your stems (remember NOT to normalize) Then send a copy of your Ozone 8 patch to have them put on the main output.

one "solution" might be to make your stems (remember NOT to normalize) Then send a copy of your Ozone 8 patch to have them put on the main output.

Interesting, but you may have dialed your patch differently, had you known the final balance the client ends up making with your stems.

Yes, that's true.. but it's a start. Once you make stems, the final product is pretty much out of your control.

Yes, that's true.. but it's a start. Once you make stems, the final product is pretty much out of your control.

 

Very true

Yes, that's true.. but it's a start. Once you make stems, the final product is pretty much out of your control.

Agreed. That's why I wouldn't even attempt stereo-bus mastering on stems. Makes no sense to me. It's not "a start", it's just a shot in the dark. There are more odds it will ruin your stems than odds it will improve them. May as well deliver raw stems, accept that you don't have control over the stereo bus, and give up that control to whoever will use your stems. Trying to have too much control over your own productions can be counter-productive in my opinion. You're not producing the final mix? Leave the stereo-bus alone.

Send your stems without any mastering processing AND send your mastered mix as a guide. The next engineer no doubt has different gear/equipment and studio space which, of course, will sound different, but hopefully, they can emulate your mastered mix well. I don't know a better way to do this given all the variables. If the next engineer has Logic and all your plugins, or can get them, you could send the entire project, but even then, monitor speakers, the room, etc., etc. will be different. When I take my work out to another studio, I'm always there to work with the engineer, but maybe that's not possible on your project. Even then, I have to prepare myself for the difference in sound and know it's going to take some collaboration to get to where I want it. They usually make things sound better. Luckily, I've worked with the same engineers for years and that's a great help.

Hi! Wanted to comment here instead of making a new thread.

I understand all the points but what if it is needed to be that way, regardless of reason, it's simply not possible? Bouncing them track by track doesn't do the same effect as feeding them all and exporting the tracks (even with busses) skips the master out. Well, what if someone simply wants the master out on it? Like above user, it's an integral part of my mix and almost needs to be heard that way to even make sense.

 

Is it possible now with the newest logic?

In this current case, I have a limiter on my master out and without it, it's peaking a bit. Not too big of a deal now but when I use Ozone I can see it being bigger.

Hi! Wanted to comment here instead of making a new thread.

I understand all the points but what if it is needed to be that way, regardless of reason, it's simply not possible? Bouncing them track by track doesn't do the same effect as feeding them all and exporting the tracks (even with busses) skips the master out. Well, what if someone simply wants the master out on it? Like above user, it's an integral part of my mix and almost needs to be heard that way to even make sense.

 

Is it possible now with the newest logic?

No, it is not possible.

 

Also note that processing independent stems through a plug-in then summing the processed stems sounds different than summing dry stems and processing the sum through that same plug-in. Kinda the same as mixing individually baked eggs, butter, flour and milk won't give you the same cake as mixing the raw ingredients and baking the mixed dough.

 

Kinda the same as mixing individually baked eggs, butter, flour and milk won't give you the same cake as mixing the raw ingredients and baking the mixed dough.

 

I love this comparison!

 

More and more Library / Production Music companies seem to be generally wanting composers to provide both a stereo master AND also 'lightly mastered' stems. So this is one scenario where it's necessary to find some kind of solution / workaround. I know quite a few Library composers advise simply not having any processing on the master bus at all, but having all the processing on the stem buses instead - and presumably the kind of processing you'd have on the master, but with the main difference being the approach to compression / limiting. What would you advise to be the best way to get close to what libraries want? Thanks for any tips!

I know quite a few Library composers advise simply not having any processing on the master bus at all, but having all the processing on the stem buses instead - and presumably the kind of processing you'd have on the master, but with the main difference being the approach to compression / limiting. What would you advise to be the best way to get close to what libraries want? Thanks for any tips!

 

Yeah this has been my approach to do all the processing on the stems and leave the stereo-out empty (except for a limiter) and it seems to be the best solution. Something that helped me a lot was to ask libraries for stems from one of their previous tracks to use as a reference. When I started working with a new library that had a really a particular production sound, I would literally just compare every one of my tracks stems to the reference, and keep adjusting until each instrument group sounded as close as I could get to the reference.

Something that helped me a lot was to ask libraries for stems from one of their previous tracks to use as a reference. When I started working with a new library that had a really a particular production sound, I would literally just compare every one of my tracks stems to the reference, and keep adjusting until each instrument group sounded as close as I could get to the reference.

 

That's really good advice, makes a lot of sense. Thanks!