Accessing green software instrument Apple loops MIDI data?

Is there any way to read the encapsulated midi data in the green software instrument Apple loops directly? It seems Logic is not reading all the event info, making these sound different than their audio tracks even when missing effects are added in.

The difference might be because, when auditioning in the Loop Browser, Logic is time/pitch shifting the audio preview... whereas, when you insert it in your project, it is changing the MIDI notes.

I'm hearing, in some cases, missing pitch bends. Try Lotus Erhu 01 in the world music jampack.

I tried that loop, it seems to play normally (no pitch bend events missing), except the reverb is gone once you import it in the project. Without the reverb, the pitch bends don't sound as smooth. Try adding the right reverb to the loop?

Green Apple loops are just a normal MIDI region -- double click and will open in Piano Roll. Just make sure you don't drag the Green Apple Loop from the Loop Browser onto an existing audio track -- as then you'll get the audio version of the loop not the MIDI version.

 

But didn't we already have this discussion?:

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=34234

I've added reverb, but I still get a very different sound. I don't have any pitch bend events when I look in hyper editor.

I've added reverb, but I still get a very different sound. I don't have any pitch bend events when I look in hyper editor.

 

I can hear the pitch bend even though there is no pitch bend data, so it's created in another way. You must be listening to it in another key? I get very close results (even though it's not exactly the same).

Hi jjlehman!

 

The instrument pitch bend is made entirely of pre-sampled material.

You can see the changes in the modwheel, they are the ones that change the different sample groups.

If you initiate a EXS24 replacing the GB String Instrument you will be able to see how this works.

 

EXS will open with the Chinese Erhu Violin Sample Instrument loaded.

Press the little Edit button to open the Editor.

Now press the Group Button. Here you can see that you have five different groups:

 

1. Erhu - Exp Vib

2. Erhu - Sus Vib

3. Erhu - Bend Up

4. Erhu - Bend Down

5. Erhu - Long Trill

 

Scroll all the way to the right and you will find the "Select Group By" parameters.

You see that all five groups are assigned to Control 1 = Modulation.

Group 1, 2 and 5 are selected when the Modulation is between 0 - 30.

Group 3 between 31 - 96 and Group 4 between 97 - 127.

 

Group 1, 2 and 3 are differentiated by velocity. Scroll back all the way to the left and look at the "Velocity Range" parameters:

Group 1, 0 - 89

Group 2, 90 - 123

Group 5 124 - 127.

 

So this is how the pitch bend works for this patch.

 

To get the same delay and reverb settings you can try sending to two different buses.

Bus 1 > Insert an Echo plug-in with this settings:

Time: 1/4

Repeat: 38%

Color: -11

Dry: 0%

Wet: 100%

 

Then turn the send knob up to -20.9.

 

Bus 2 > Insert an Platinum Reverb, then chose the "Big Room" preset. and change this:

Balance ER/Reverb: 100 % wet.

Room Size: 10 m

Stereo Base: 0.2m

Initial Delay: 13 ms

Spread: 58%

Crossover:400 Hz

Low Ratio: 50%

Low Freq Level: -10 dB

High Cut: 8300 Hz

Density: 100%

Reverb Time: 1.75 sec

Out Wet: 100%

 

Turn this send knob up to 6,4

 

I hope this helps.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Eric Cardenas

Wow Eric, that was quite thorough!! Thanks!

Wow Eric, that was quite thorough!! Thanks!

 

Ey David!

Mi casa es tu casa.

Thanks for the help!

The apple loops you guys are referring to are actually AUDIO FILES with embedded MIDI information. Even if they are "green" they are still AUDIO FILES (CAF) recorded with different samples and different effects then the one provided in Logic or Garage Band, some of them are actual real players with real instruments. THEN an approximated MIDI version gets embedded in the files. Hope that makes sense.

Yes, the loops include MIDI data, and instrument/plugin data, and the also contain an audio preview of the loop, so you can use them as ordinary audio apple loops too. So that's three sets of data you can choose or not to use for any green loop. The MIDI data isn't "approximated" from the loop, the MIDI data creates the audio that's written to the audio preview in the first place.

 

They are not recorded with different effects that the ones provided in Logic, just usually with some extra reverb to give a preview that's more appropriate in context. Yes, the ones that are sampled instruments are sampled from real players (eg playing violins, or pianos etc).

 

Nice thread revival though - 11 years is good going!

The apple loops you guys are referring to are actually AUDIO FILES with embedded MIDI information. Even if they are "green" they are still AUDIO FILES (CAF)

That part is correct, yes.

 

recorded with different samples and different effects then the one provided in Logic or Garage Band, some of them are actual real players with real instruments. THEN an approximated MIDI version gets embedded in the files.

That part is not correct, no.

 

All the green loops that are in the Apple Sound Library that comes with Logic are made of a MIDI region triggering instruments, samples and effects included in Logic's sound library; that exact MIDI region is embedded in the Apple Loop, which means you can drag a green loop to a software instrument track (or to the bottom of the workspace in the Tracks area) and have the original MIDI region and instruments and effects plug-ins that were used to create the Apple Loops.

Dear David,

 

Thanks for your response. I don't remember exactly what made me believe what I wrote but I just pulled up a random "green loop" called "Escape F Orchestral Kit" from the library. If I drag it as is, logic creates a midi track that plays what sounds to be the same exact part I heard in the preview, minus the reverb. If I drag it to an audio track the reverb is printed on it. Am I missing something or should I conclude that, even if it is true that those are the sampled instruments originally used for the loop but maybe the reverb settings (in this case) are not part of the midi loop? And if that's the case, could I assume maybe in the original version of the loop there was some third party processing that it hasn't been possible to include in the midi version?

 

Thanks in advance for taking the time.

Enrico

Reverb is printed in the preview audio file for the orchestral stuff so you can hear what it would sound like in context, rather than a dry orchestral instrument which would sound unnatural. A reverb plugin is not included in the instrument/plugin data as otherwise people would load in individual sounds and have multiple individual reverbs, one per instrument, which is bad for the CPU and is not how we traditionally do reverb, where the whole orchestral is put in one main shared space.

 

These are design choices to give flexibility to the user without getting them tied up in knots, particularly new users who might not know any better.

 

That's the only reason the reverb plugins are not included.

Thanks for your prompt response.

 

So there's no way of knowing what particular reverb setting has been used?

Nothing other than listening to it - you should be able to identify general character things - whether it's a plate, hall or room, roughly how long the reverb time is, a feel for the early reflection time, whether high freqs are rolled off and so on, and just replicate those in whatever reverb you want to use.

 

In the previews, it's probably Space Designer in the main, but what settings/IR's etc were used on any particular loop/sound are anybody's guess. it's probably a Space Designer preset, so have a look through some "orchestral hall"-type presets or something, you might find a close match.

If you own GarageBand and import the loop in GarageBand I suppose you can see which reverb patch(es) are used and how they're dialed?