Multitimbral, Multi-Output Instrument Volume/Pan Control!

When using a multi-instrument as a "front end" for a multitimbral plugin, any CC#7 volume (and pan) information that you might generate from a controller keyboard (or even volume/pan automation generated on-screen by moving the fader or panpot with the mouse) on any track assigned to a "sub channel" of the multi always ends up being routed to the instrument channel which is hosting the plugin itself. This makes it impossible to individually automate volume (and pan) for the individual instruments in the plugin. Of course, the way around this is to assign each sound in the plugin to an Aux, and then automate the volume (or pan) of the Auxes. The problem there is that you have to do your automation on a track assigned to the Aux and not the track in which your parts are recorded, an awkward situation at best.

So to overcome these limitations, I've come up with a very simple, two-component environment scheme which lets you record a part and ride volume (and pan) automation on the same track as that part, not a separate Aux track. This should lower track count and make things more streamlined when it comes to working with multitimbral plugins.

What you see in the screenshot below is all it takes to accomplish this with a 4-part multitimbral plugin. And what's going on inside the Transformer is...

...well, it's actually a bit strange, but it works like a charm. However, before I post a project file and an explanation of how it works, I'd like to see if anyone's interested in this. So, "a show of hands, please!"

Please sir, share your secrets with us

http://www.harrycutting.com/graphics/photos/education/young-boy-raises-hand-classroom-I175-04-58.jpg

I'm interested, thanks!...and especially curious about

And what's going on inside the Transformer is......well, it's actually a bit strange but it works like a charm.

J.

OK Ski, tell us, what have you told the trasformer to do? We're dying out here! Show us already!

http://funny.funnyoldplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/show-off-hands.jpg

Looks like ski has reinvented my famous "Multi Channel Instrument plug-in template" that I posted in 2006?

In my template I use the transformer to route all MIDI CC 7 and 10 that does not belong to the main software instrument channel strip (anything that's not on MIDI Channel 1) to their respective Aux channel strips so you can automate volume and pan from the external MIDI tracks. For the little story, I originally designed that template for myself and I later fine tuned it for Steve Porcaro.

Oh and in my template, you can also mix with the volume sliders on the Aux, the volume sliders on the external MIDI tracks will automatically update their position.

Maybe I did without realizing it! And... and... I didn't realize that yours was "famous". OMG!

Anyway, in my lil' setup (which I'll post later) there's a whole lot less cabling required, and, my transformer specifically detects only CC #7 and #10 (a small point, but nonetheless...). I'll post it later today.

It seems everyone was stealing David's idea.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep07/articles/logictech_0907.htm

Yeah, well, you know, great minds think alike and all that...

Well, if nothing else, you environment geeks will probably get a kick out of my transformer programming.

=Geek-Ski=

To be fair, people have been finding workarounds on this issue ever since it was discovered, way back in the day.

There are a variety of ways to tackle it... but it would be nice if Logic's handling improved in this area so we wouldn't have to resort to workarounds...

So... indeed, there seem to be a lot of different people who've come up with the same approach. But I was inspired to (unwittingly) reinvent this approach because of a recent article I read in which the author didn't seem aware of this method. Anyway, FWIW, here it is (again I guess), the Spring/Summer 2011 Version.

Screenshot and project file attached.

SCREENSHOT DETAILS

What you see is an instrument channel strip hosting a multi-timbral instance of EXS-24 which has the following MIDI channel and output assignments:

ch 1 sound = EXS output 1/2 (signal shows up on channel strip)

ch 2 sound = EXS output 3/4 (signal shows up on Aux 1)

ch 3 sound = EXS output 5/6 (signal shows up on Aux 2)

ch 4 sound = EXS output 7/8 (signal shows up on Aux 3)

In the Environment window we see a Logic multi-instrument which is being used as a front end for the instrument channel. There are four channels activated (no slashes) and as you can see in the arrange window, tracks 1 - 4 are assigned to multi-instrument channels 1 - 4 respectively. And there you can also see that I've got four regions, each with their own volume automation. This is one of the key aspects of this setup, that volume (and pan) automation can be written directly to the track a each part is recorded on. The Auxes themsleves should be set to Automation = Off.

Back to the Environment window, aside from the multi-instrument itself we see just two additional Environment components ("objects") -- a transformer and a channel splitter. Those two objects, plus a little programming of the transformer and a minimum of cabling, are all that are required to make this work.

For the Environmentally curious, or, if you want to create this setup yourself and not used the attached project file as a source, a few technical points...

1. The top cable of the transformer is connected to the channel splitter. The bottom cable is connected to the instrument channel strip. This is critical. Reverse them and it won't work.

2. It may be hard to see, but the Ch. 1 output of the Channel Splitter (CS) is not used. Cabling is as follows:

• CS Ch. 2 output--->Aux 1

• CS Ch. 3 output--->Aux 2

• CS Ch. 4 output--->Aux 3

TRANSFORMER DETAILS

The programming of the Transformer must be duplicated exactly as shown. What may not be entirely clear in the picture is how the map is programmed:

• Map Position 7 = 127

• Map Position 10 = 127

• All other Map Positions = 0

By virtue of those map positions being set to 127, CC's #7 and #10 on any channel other than channel 1 will be sent to the CS. The value of those map positions can actually be any non-zero value, but 127 is easy to see and program.

Finally, although I've only shown four MIDI channels and 3 Auxes, up to 16 channels of MIDI (and upwards of 15 auxes) are supported by this setup.

Enjoy!

MultiControl Ski V1.0.zip

What you see is an instrument channel strip hosting a multi-timbral instance of EXS-24

But the EXS24 is not multitimbral, so...

*ducks*

Sure it is! See how I have it set up in the project file: I made an instrument (included in the project file, no extra charge) with four zones, four groups, one zone to a group, each group set to play via MIDI channel.

Zzzzzzhhhhhoooooooooooooooooom !

(That's the sound of the knowledge of how to make EXS-24 multi-timbral whooshing past your head. Close call!)

Hehe. Fun and games!

That's a nice neat solution there - great implementation!

Thanks Ski, I'm going to have a play around with this at some point today.

One thing I'm curious about before I start, if set up correctly will this allow me to change the levels of the different parts using the level knob on my synths? Up to now it doesn't seem to matter which part I want to change the level of, the no.1 channel strip always changes as soon as I touch the knob.

With this setup, by selecting the actual tracks you're recording parts on, any CC#7 or CC#10 data you generate from your controller(s) will be routed to the appropriate volume control:

CC#7 & #10 on channel 1 ----> instrument channel strip

CC#7 & #10 data on all other channels ----> channel splitter --> Auxes

Notes and all other data are always sent to the instrument channel strip.

If you have a track assigned to multi-instrument, sub-channel 1, it won't matter what channel you're transmitting on from your controller. That data will be channelized to channel 1 by the multi-instrument sub-channel which you have assigned to the track. Data from the multi, on ch. 1, hits the transformer and is passed on to the instrument channel strip via the bottom output. Now...

If you selected a track assigned to multi, sub-channel 2, the incoming MIDI data will be channelized to ch. 2 in the multi. That track's MIDI data, now on ch. 2, hits the transformer; notes and other MIDI data except for CC#7 & #10 pass to the instrument channel strip via the bottom output of the transformer. The CC#7 and #10 data (both on ch. 2) pass to the top output of the transformer and then to the channel splitter, where they're routed to an Aux.

Hope that helps explain things. But in short, you will not have that problem you described with this setup.

So... indeed, there seem to be a lot of different people who've come up with the same approach. But I was inspired to (unwittingly) reinvent this approach because of a recent article I read in which the author (who shall remain nameless) didn't seem aware of the workaround for... well, we know what for, don't we! Anyway, FWIW, here it is (again I guess), the Spring/Summer 2011 Version.

 

Screenshot and project file attached.

 

SCREENSHOT DETAILS

What you see is an instrument channel strip hosting a multi-timbral instance of EXS-24 which has the following MIDI channel and output assignments:

 

ch 1 sound = EXS output 1/2 (signal shows up on channel strip)

ch 2 sound = EXS output 3/4 (signal shows up on Aux 1)

ch 3 sound = EXS output 5/6 (signal shows up on Aux 2)

ch 4 sound = EXS output 7/8 (signal shows up on Aux 3)

 

In the Environment window we see a Logic multi-instrument which is being used as a front end for the instrument channel. There are four channels activated (no slashes) and as you can see in the arrange window, tracks 1 - 4 are assigned to multi-instrument channels 1 - 4 respectively. And there you can also see that I've got four regions, each with their own volume automation. This is one of the key aspects of this setup, that volume (and pan) automation can be written directly to the track a each part is recorded on. The Auxes themsleves should be set to Automation = Off.

 

Back to the Environment window, aside from the multi-instrument itself we see just two additional Environment components ("objects") -- a transformer and a channel splitter. Those two objects, plus a little programming of the transformer and a minimum of cabling, are all that are required to make this work.

 

For the Environmentally curious, or, if you want to create this setup yourself and not used the attached project file as a source, a few technical points...

 

1. The top cable of the transformer is connected to the channel splitter. The bottom cable is connected to the instrument channel strip. This is critical. Reverse them and it won't work.

 

2. It may be hard to see, but the Ch. 1 output of the Channel Splitter (CS) is not used. Cabling is as follows:

 

• CS Ch. 2 output--->Aux 1

• CS Ch. 3 output--->Aux 2

• CS Ch. 4 output--->Aux 3

 

TRANSFORMER DETAILS

The programming of the Transformer must be duplicated exactly as shown. What may not be entirely clear in the picture is how the map is programmed:

 

• Map Position 7 = 127

• Map Position 10 = 127

• All other Map Positions = 0

 

By virtue of those map positions being set to 127, CC's #7 and #10 on any channel other than channel 1 will be sent to the CS. The value of those map positions can actually be any non-zero value, but 127 is easy to see and program.

 

Finally, although I've only shown four MIDI channels and 3 Auxes, up to 16 channels of MIDI (and upwards of 15 auxes) are supported by this setup.

 

Enjoy!

Very nice... But can you control the Aux Volume and Pan Levels with your mouse and have the midi Mixer update their values?? Would you have to patch some more cables in order to do that ???

Cheers, lokotus

Hope that helps explain things. But in short, you will not have that problem you described with this setup.

Indeed it does, I'll test it out & come back to you if I have any problems.

I was talking about multi timbral external synths by the way, I think what I'll do is change the channels in performance mode to start from channel 2 & take it from there.

Very nice... But can you control the Aux Volume and Pan Levels with your mouse and have the midi Mixer update their values??

Yes!

BTW, the channel strips you see in the Mixer and in the Environment are the same except in appearance. Say you see Aux 1 in the Mixer page. That Aux 1 is the same one that you'll see if you went to the Environment page where that Aux is located. In other words, they're the same Aux 1 channel strip.

Would you have to patch some more cables in order to do that?

This setup is specific to multi-timbral instruments hosted in a instrument channel strip, where the different sounds are routed to different outputs of that multi-instrument, and where Auxes are used as channel strips for those different outputs. So, yes, you'll have to do this kind of setup to be able to automate volume and pan on the very tracks you're recording on.

HTH & Cheers!

Ski

I was talking about multi timbral external synths by the way, I think what I'll do is change the channels in performance mode to start from channel 2 & take it from there.

Oh. This setup is specifically for instrument channel strip-hosted multi-timbral instruments. For multi-timbral MIDI instruments that you play via a multi-instrument (assigned to a port on your MIDI interface), you won't need any of this, of course. And assuming that you've assigned each sound on the external synth to a different MIDI channel, you should have no problem automating volume and pan using regular track-based automation in Logic.

And assuming that you've assigned each sound on the external synth to a different MIDI channel, you should have no problem automating volume and pan using regular track-based automation in Logic.

Yes, depending on what I'm doing, I would have all sounds assigned to different channels but what tends to happen is say I select part #3 on the actual synth (not touching anything in Logic) then adjust the level knob on the synth, the display panel will show that the output level of that part is reducing but also in Logic part #1 level fader will move.

This might be a problem for a different thread though, what I'll do is have a read through the manual to see what it says about MIDI Tx settings when in performance mode to see if I can figure something out.

Yes, depending on what I'm doing, I would have all sounds assigned to different channels but what tends to happen is say I select part #3 on the actual synth (not touching anything in Logic) then adjust the level knob on the synth, the display panel will show that the output level of that part is reducing but also in Logic part #1 level fader will move.

Yeah, I think this would best be discussed in a separate thread. I have some ideas as to why that occurs and how to prevent it.

Cheers

Cool, I'll let you know how I get on

Thanks Ski

There's a couple of things I'm not sure I'm getting with this set-up...

I'm noticing that I can move a midi channel fader and the corresponding aux fader will follow it but not the other way around. Is that as it should be, that the link between them is one way?

The other thing is that the automation doesn't look like it's working properly. Since the aux faders will move in tandem with any manual moves I make on the midi faders, why aren't they aren't responding to any automation edits I draw on the midi channels? The midi channel faders will move with the automation changes but not the auxes. That doesn't make sense to me. Are the aux faders supposed to follow the automation moves? Or is this set-up designed to allow additional separate automation on the auxes?

I'm noticing that I can move a midi channel fader and the corresponding aux fader will follow it but not the other way around. Is that as it should be, that the link between them is one way?

I believe that's how ski's designed his template, yes. Mine works two ways: move any of the volume fader and the other one updates its position.

David is correct, this is how it's designed.

[edit: See below for Camillo's fix for getting the Aux faders to move as expected].

Yes it does, thanks.

I did a quick test here and swapped Kontakt for the EXS so I could hear what was happening with the automation. Yep, I can definitely hear pan and volume changes, even though the Aux faders and pan rings don't appear to be moving.

However, if I put the aux channel in Read mode, it does update! So it's purely visual with the auxes and makes no audible difference, as you say.

Where it might make a difference is when you put certain plug-ins on the aux that create their own volume or imaging effects - in that case it would be good to see what was actually happening on the aux channel.

At any rate, I do appreciate the simpler cabling involved with this environment fix, so thanks for whipping this one up ski.

I did a quick test here and swapped Kontakt for the EXS so I could hear what was happening with the automation. Yep, I can definitely hear pan and volume changes, even though the Aux faders and pan rings don't appear to be moving.

Cool.

However, if I put the aux channel in Read mode, it does update!

A-ha! Great! Thanks for sussing that out. Great to know that.

Where it might make a difference is when you put certain plug-ins on the aux that create their own volume or imaging effects - in that case it would be good to see what was actually happening on the aux channel.

Indeed. In that case you'll be putting those Auxes in Touch or Latch, of course. You'll just have to take care to resist any temptation to write volume (or pan) automation on those Auxes, as they will conflict (and introduce chatter) with the volume/pan automation they're receiving from the instrument tracks.

At any rate, I do appreciate the simpler cabling involved with this environment fix, so thanks for whipping this one up ski.

Is it possible to retro-fit this to an already inserted multi-instrument? What I'd like to be able to do is have the transformer either waiting in the wings, ready to cable up or to cable it up right away but deal with the auxes and the channel splitter later.

But I just did a quick experiment - I un-cabled and the re-cabled the transformer to the channel splitter to see if this would be possible and now none of the channels except the first one are responding to my controller. What have I done here and how do I get it back??