(layering) synths: 1 automation track for tweaking? [SOLVED]

Okay, let's try to discribe my question ..

I like to layer several vst synths for a phat sound. See the next article for a 'glue' method:

http://www.macprovideo.com/hub/logic-pro/how-to-build-layered-instrument-logic-pro

At the moment I'm working on a project with 3 the same synths but different sounds. Instead of automate each synth separately (for example the cutoff and resonance knobs, which have the same value in each synth), is there a possibility to 'glue' them together in 1 track so I don't have to automate all the tweaks 3 times? I have them already at the same track (see article) but I can't choose automation inside the synths. Only the options which Logic Pro provides are visible (midi control 0-63 and 64-127). Ofcourse, all the synths go to a buss so I can also use a filter, but some tweaks need settings inside the synths.

It's not a big deal if I need to do everything 3 times (or 4, or 5 hehe) but if there's a more easy way, why don't use it (if you know how it works)!

i would also love to know if there is work around for this haha. If you adjust the first synths automation then just copy and paste that on the others that wouldn't take too long. not an answer really haha but that is what i would do.

also with busses i like to create an empty region on the track where there is automation so i can copy and paste that region very accurately throughout the rest of the track when it is needed.

Yes, there is a way to do this. You can create faders in the environment, and program them to control, for example, the cutoff of three different filters in three different software instruments.

One downside is that you will need a fourth track for that fader's automation. So you'll have one more track in the Arrange area, just for the "layered" automation (the automation destined to all 3 instruments).

If you want to give us an example of which 3 instruments you're using, I can show you exactly how the fader needs to be programmed in the environment. So which 3 instruments?

David,

You are a good, good man!

also with busses i like to create an empty region on the track where there is automation so i can copy and paste that region very accurately throughout the rest of the track when it is needed.

Indeed! That's very usefull for complicated automation tweaks.

So which 3 instruments?

Ah there's a way

Synapse Dune

Sylenth1

Native Massive

Ouch.... that's going to be a bit more tricky than I'd hope as I don't have those synths here so I can't test it.

Here's what I would do first: open the environment window and choose New > Monitor. Then cable the 3 channel strips where those instruments are inserted into the monitor. One at a time, turn the cutoff for each synth and look at the type of MIDI event it sends in the Monitor. Report here. Then it's simply a matter of having your custom fader send that data to the 3 synths (probably with the help of transformer objects to duplicate and transform the data for the other synths).

open the environment window > check

choose New > Monitor > check

cable the 3 channel strips where those instruments are inserted into the monitor > check

turn the cutoff for each synth and look at the type of MIDI event it sends in the Monitor > well, that's a good one because I'm not very familiar with the environment or transform window .. yet. So where can I see this type of midi event when I turn a particularly knob? Checked the manual already but it's a bit complicated. Also read this article:

http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/recording/understanding-logic-pros-environment

The monitor is by the way empty (there's nothing in it). Don't know if that's okay?

When turning the knob, you should (hopefully) see MIDI data in the monitor? If you don't, then we'll have to use another approach.

Do those plug-in allow to be controlled by MIDI Continuous Controllers? If yes then you could assign a MIDI CC # to all their cutoff, then program your custom fader to send that MIDI CC #.

Nope, the monitor window stays empty.

I don't understand the MIDI Continuous Controllers part, sorry.

Maybe it's too complicated after all (for me).

I think I need to spend more time on exploring the environment first.

I don't understand the MIDI Continuous Controllers part, sorry.

What I mean is you can assign MIDI CC to parameters ... for example in Massive: just right-click the knob of choice and choose MIDI learn, then turn a knob on your controller.

See if you can also do that in your two other synths. If you assign the three cutoffs to the same MIDI CC and use a knob that transmits that MIDI CC then you should be sorted.

Dynamike - The monitor method that David described should work, at least with Massive. I have friends who use Sylenth1 and Synapse Dune, and those should work too.

I just tried this with Massive. See the attached screenshot and compare your environment setup with mine. Going to sound silly, but make sure the cable goes FROM the channel strip TO the monitor, not the other way around.

What you can see in my screenshot:

• My channel strip labeled "Inst 1" has an instance of Massive
  
• The cable runs from "Inst 1" to the monitor
  
• I have turned Filter 1 cutoff in massive up
  
• The monitor shows the midi data (the first number "2" indicates that the monitor is reading midi data, the second number "33" is the CC for the Filter 1 knob, the third number indicates the current value of the Filter 1 cutoff)

Using the Monitor in Logic 9's environment

Yeah, now we're getting somewhere! It wasn't silly at all because I did it the wrong way (indeed) so now I can see numbers in the monitor. I also used the midi learn option, so I know now which numbers I must assign (for example: Dune cutoff = 28). But that's the next step which looks complicated. I checked the manual and it says I have to go to preferences / control surfaces / controller assignments. But it looks like this is something for a hardware midi controller (which I don't have by the way). Am I right?

If you assign the three cutoffs to the same MIDI CC and use a knob that transmits that MIDI CC then you should be sorted.

This would be the next step!

I found this tread but I still can't figure out how everything works.

https://logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87457

It seems I need a fader and an transformer?

And at the end there must be a track for automation.

One step at a time Dynamike!

now I can see numbers in the monitor.

Show us the numbers (screenshots) for all 3 synths and I'll show you how to create the fader in the environment.

Haha, your're right!

Number 1 = Massive = same story as razzzzz (but I made a screenshot anyway)

Cutoff CC = 33

Number 2 = Dune

Cutoff CC = 28

Number 3 = Sylenth1 (and I also opened the transform window > this is the one I'll need?)

Cutoff CC = 54

Meanwhile, let's assume they are MIDI CC (look like a mod wheel):

1) Choose New > Fader > Auto.

2) In the Inspector, set:

Output = Control

Channel = 2

-1- = 33

3) Choose New > Transformer.

4) Set like so:

5) Choose New > Transformer and set the same but to 54.

6) Cable fader into Massive and into first transformer.

7) Cable first transformer into Dune and into second transformer.

8) Cable second transformer into Sylenth.

Let me know if you need help with any of it?

A screenshot would help though: are you sure those are MIDI CC and not Fader events? In the monitor, what's the first symbol: does it look like a mod wheel? A "F"?

I posted 3 screenshots, klick the blue names (urls)

Will test it tomorrow!

Time to sleep now. 8)

Ah I missed the - we prefer if you attach your screenshot to the thread rather than linking to another site that will probably no longer have the images a while from now.

In any case the only thing you have to change from my instructions is in the inspector when your fader is selected, set Output = Fader.

Yep. Just tried out the steps that David outlined, and indeed it works. Pretty nifty!

Dynamike, let us know if it works out for you.

Ah I missed the - we prefer if you attach your screenshot to the thread rather than linking to another site that will probably no longer have the images a while from now.

Check (and updated)!

This is what I have so far >

I was searching for the fader in the All synths together track, for automation.

But it's not there, so which control triggers the fader?

You won't find the automation track for the fader in your "All strings together" instrument. Instead, you need to assign your fader to an arrange track directly. Here's how you do that:

1) Select the fader you want to automate in your environment window

2) Check the "Icon" box in your inspector window on the left side of the environment (this makes your fader visible to other parts of logic... it will make sense in a bit, keep reading)

3) Go back to your arrange window and create a new midi track

4) Right click the track, then browse to Reassign Instrument -> Mixer, and you should see your fader listed there (If you didn't check the "Icon" box in step 2, your fader would not show up in this list).

Now you should have your fader as a dedicated track in the arrange window which you can now automate.

This is the only way I know how to do this (I've been working with the environment for only 2 days now), maybe one of the pros has a more efficient way to do it?

1) Select the fader you want to automate in your environment window

2) Check the "Icon" box in your inspector window on the left side of the environment (this makes your fader visible to other parts of logic... it will make sense in a bit, keep reading)

3) Go back to your arrange window and create a new midi track

4) Right click the track, then browse to Reassign Instrument -> Mixer, and you should see your fader listed there (If you didn't check the "Icon" box in step 2, your fader would not show up in this list).

An easier way:

1) Create a track, any kind, or use any existing unused track.

2) Drag and drop the fader from the Environment window to the track header in the Arrange area.

Well, and there it is, a step by step 'tutorial' for this subject _O_

It's complicated, but now .. everyone who wants to know .. knows

After pressing the imaginary "I like" button, I say thanks to all participants \O/