Logic Pro 10.1: reloading multitimbral instruments? [FIXED]

I would categorize this as a bug.

Your workaround using aux tracks is the way to go. I feel that the whole Multi-timbral creating in the New tracks... dialog window is a bug all in itself.

Will send apple a bug report. BTW, the same behavior happens if you create a single instrument track and manually add more midi channels via "new with next midi channel" key command, so something is going wrong with Logic recalling the instrument I think.

If I do have to use Aux tracks (which is the only way this currently works) is there anything to be worried about? Is there a limit to the amount of aux tracks I can have in a project? Also I'm assuming that having a bunch of aux tracks will slow down Logic due to the increased overhead? Or am I wrong and there is no negative to using aux tracks for multi-timbral instruments?

the same behavior happens if you create a single instrument track and manually add more midi channels via "new with next midi channel" key command.

Yes! That's exactly what the new track multi-timbral is doing, but as a batch.

What I mean is that it isn't optimal to use the same instrument represented by several objects assigned to different MIDI channels.

Is there a limit to the amount of aux tracks I can have in a project?

255 aux tracks is the limit.

Also I'm assuming that having a bunch of aux tracks will slow down Logic due to the increased overhead?

Why do you assume this?

Well, every aux you create is another audio object in Logic, so your taxing your audio system more. Where as an additional track set to the same instrument (but different midi channel) is not adding anything additional to the audio system. Thats my thought process anyway, have no actual data to back this up, except that it takes noticeably longer to load a project full of aux tracks vs one with just midi tracks. (at least this was true in Logic 9 - just started using Logic 10 recently).

Wonder if anyone has hard data as it would be nice to know.

every aux you create is another audio object in Logic, so your taxing your audio system more. Where as an additional track set to the same instrument (but different midi channel) is not adding anything additional to the audio system.

I understand how you are thinking but this isn't how it works.

Open the environment and you will see that you have exactly the same amount of objects when using the same software instrument with different MIDI channels as you have with additional aux objects.

Yeah, I understand that thinking too, but ins't there a difference between new audio objects vs midi objects? I dont know what "new with next midi channel" creates, but in my mind an Aux track is for sure a new audio object that Logic has to create (new internal audio routing), while the "new with next midi channel" points to an audio object (no new internal audio routing as its still going out the same instrument) and might be similar to how a alias points to a file? I dont know, but though "new with next midi channel" creates a new object in the environment, If I make 15 of them it is still pointing to a single audio object (in this case an instrument) while creating 15 new aux tracks is for sure creating 15 new audio objects with Logic internal audio routing to each aux. In my mind, the latter would take more audio resources.

Like I said I dont have any hard data to back this up (and unsure how I would gather it or I would gladly test it) but I'd be surprised if both methods use the same amount of CPU resources. Again, I could be WAY off though, as Logic has surprised me in the past (i.e. creating a multiple Kontakt instance uses less resources than the first instance - still unsure how that works, haha)

What do you think?

Yeah, I understand that thinking too, but ins't there a difference between new audio objects vs midi objects?

Software instrument channels are audio objects.

You could use a Multi instrument in the environment if you want a clean MIDI object.

If I make 15 of them it is still pointing to a single audio object (in this case an instrument) while creating 15 new aux tracks is for sure creating 15 new audio objects with Logic internal audio routing to each aux. In my mind, the latter would take more audio resources.

You are using the same amount of objects but you are assigning them to different Core audio channels.

According to the memory print they are exactly equal.

It is however an interesting point. You could try and find out if there really is any difference by creating two parallel projects with the same amount of tracks but using these two different methods?

Well you got me curious so I ran a test. I created a fresh project with 5 fully loaded omnispheres using either multitimbral instruments with 8 total tracks vs multitimbral instrument with the instrument + 7 aux tracks. To make sure it was fair, even though the multitimbral without auxes would normally be a stereo instance of omnisphere, I loaded each with the same “multi-output” version of the instrument. Also to make sure it was fair I created both in blank Logic sessions and restarted my computer after creating the first test, and created the 2nd second one from scratch. Also incase it matters I did not duplicate any instruments to create this, and each omnisphere had completely different instruments per session, all loaded from scratch as I would in a normal composing situation.

Activity Monitor Results:

Midi Channels Version

CPU: 255%

memory: 2.07GB

Aux Channels Version

CPU: 258%

Memory: 2.08GB

So to me, at least in this test, they both run the same! Very interesting!! So I guess additional Aux tracks do not seem to adversely effect performance so it looks like I can use the aux track versions with no fear!

So to me, at least in this test, they both run the same! Very interesting!! So I guess additional Aux tracks do not seem to adversely effect performance so it looks like I can use the aux track versions with no fear!

Thanks for testing this thoroughly Jon.

Now we have more actual data to back up our suspicions.

Hi JT3_Jon, I'm coming over from a separate but identical threae (http://www.logicprohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=116480&p=601343#p601343)--thank you so much for your own post and the workaround which I find very interesting. I had no idea it could be done--is that a new thing in X or was that already possible in 9?

The downside, of course, is that you will not have access to plug-in automation on any of the Aux tracks--only on the master track.

Additionally, to be fully fair the comparison between A) one software instrument + 7 aux tracks and B) one software instrument with 7 additional midi channels would need to be done while playing content on all tracks--ie with a sequence containing regions and information on all tracks at the same time. That way instead of being idle (which really only benchmark idle usage and perfs), it would be about processing playback through A) the original software instrument + the 7 additional auxes, versus B) the whole thing summed into the original software instrument. Or is that how you tested it?

I will definitely post this as a bug as well, and refrain from using this specific feature for now. Too bad!

J.

I had no idea it could be done--is that a new thing in X or was that already possible in 9?

This workflow has been possible since Logic 9.1.7.

The downside, of course, is that you will not have access to plug-in automation on any of the Aux tracks--only on the master track.

You can always use CC automation on the regions.

The only downside: you can't bounce in place on AUX tracks.

By the way I'm still running Logic 10.7 as a backup and the recall issue doesn't happen there.

The only downside: you can't bounce in place on AUX tracks.

By the way I'm still running Logic 10.7 as a backup and the recall issue doesn't happen there.

Sorry I meant Logic 10.0.7

This is also fixed in Logic Pro X 10.2 but there is an additional bug to watch out for:

10.2 Multitimbral Track Stack with Multi-Outs [bUG]