How to add a bar before 1

Hey guys, so i finished my song in logic pro x, and i now want to add a 1 bar synth riser type effect befor the start of the song. In theory i could select my whole project to the right 1 bar, then add it in.  Id rather not do this with all of the automation and stuff. So is there a way i can insert a negative bar in logic pro x? I believe pro tools has an insert time command which does the same thing. I want to add one negative bar befor bar one so i can put in a little riser intro. Thanks!

hi

 

Select the 1st bar as cycle, then go to:

Edit/ CuInsert time/ Insert silence at locators

 

It will create empty bar and move everything  one bar to the right . If you need more than 1 bar just create bigger cycle

2,3,4 etc. bars

 

hope this helps

will it actually move the project or will it just pla ce the bar at negative one?

if you open up the Toolbar (control option command T) and choose "Insert Silence" Logic 10.3 will move everything to the right of your selection (with a dialog box full of options)

Yep, it is better to select all and move it 1 bar to the right to make space. Using anything below 1 1 1 1 can lead to all sorts of anomalies and issues.

Just make sure this preference is set to Always or Ask:

 

So, these are the actions:

Set the Snap value to Bar.

Select All regions (cmd-A).

Move all 1 bar (or 3, or however much you need) to the right. If Logic asks about moving automation, click Yes.

+1 with what was said above, even if Logic offers this possibility, never move the Project start marker to any negative position. Instead, move your whole project by inserting silence, and the Automation will follow so so long as you have set your preferences as Eriksimon describes.

 

If you still want sections of your project to be positionned as bar numbers that make "numerical sense" (for instance, most sections are 4 bar long, so it would make sense that they would start at bar number 1, 5, 9, etc ; or they are 8 bar long, so starting points should be 1, 9, 17,  etc), simply insert a silence that has the same length (e.g. 4 bars, or 8 bars, or silence, in my two examples above). This way the "true" project start (after the synth sweep) will be bar 5, or 9 (again in my examples above). Finally, on the marker track, you can insetrt a 1bar marker for just the synth sweep (which will be positioned at bar 4, or 8, in my examples above, i.e. 1 bar before the whole project start). As Logic offers key commands to jump to a given marker, that's an easy way to jump to the start of the sweep even if it isn't positioned at bar 1.

All we need now is the ability to renumber bars - or is that in LPX now

Super useful info here. Thanks OP and responders.

All we need now is the ability to renumber bars - or is that in LPX now

It's only in the Score editor now, not in the ruler. 

So, these are the actions:

Set the Snap value to Bar.

Select All regions (cmd-A).

Move all 1 bar (or 3, or however much you need) to the right. If Logic asks about moving automation, click Yes.

I find it easier and safer to insert silence as Benco suggested. Any other event automatically follows so you don't have to worry about them (or to change any preferences). 

This could use some "user-interface improvement."  The phrase, "insert silence at bars" certainly does not imply to me that it corresponds to this very-common action.

 

Two very easy actions here:  "insert n measures," and "remove the currently-selected slice of time."  Both should be readily available, plainly marked, undo-able (of course ...), and intuitive.  "In the grand Apple tradition."

What sort of anomalies and problems might occur when you start a song at measure 0?..   I've always started at measure 0 to put in CC set-up events, and pick up notes if necessary..  I know many here have said to always start at measure 1.. 

 

Thanx.. respectfully,, 

What sort of anomalies and problems might occur when you start a song at measure 0?

viewtopic.php?t=129555

1.1.1.1 is non-intuitive, since all math originates from 0.0.0.0. Even SMPTE starts at 0. But it's the LPX way. Resistance is futile.

 

So, when I am '1 bar' into my project, I'm at '2'. Ridiculous.

1.1.1.1 is non-intuitive, since all math originates from 0.0.0.0. Even SMPTE starts at 0. But it's the LPX way. Resistance is futile.

While you're right about maths in general, counting from 1 is not "the LPX way", it is how musicians have counted music since ... musicians started counting. The first bar is bar 1. The first beat is beat 1. You don't count four beats as "0, 1, 2, 3...", you count "1, 2, 3, 4". 

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful to have a 0 bar or even negative bars in Logic - but starting to count from 0 is not a standard concept in western music notation. 

Well I was schooled in pick up notes happened before bar one.. The downbeat of the song is always bar one.

Pick up notes, and CCevents program #'s I start staggered at measure 0..  The song itself always starts on bar one. Thinking in bars of 4, 8, 16 is totally memorized for me.. I know exactly where to go to put in that tom roll.   Simply adding one more measure, somehow trips me up... 

 

 Other than this, are there any 'technical issues that might occur, Like will the  project get corrupted, if I back the start up to measure zero?

Well I was schooled in pick up notes happened before bar one.. The downbeat of the song is always bar one.

Agreed. 

 

Pick up notes, and CCevents program #'s I start staggered at measure 0..  The song itself always starts on bar one. Thinking in bars of 4, 8, 16 is totally memorized for me.. I know exactly where to go to put in that tom roll.   Simply adding one more measure, somehow trips me up... 

Agreed, me too, but not enough (for me) to make the decision to accept all the unexpected behaviors that moving the project start marker creates. 

 

Other than this, are there any 'technical issues that might occur, Like will the  project get corrupted, if I back the start up to measure zero?

I don't suppose it would be a source of project file corruption. But if I had a penny for every time I sorted out someone's unexpected behavior by telling them "move your project start marker back to 1 1 1 1 and never move it again", I would be a rich man. 

 

Each version of Logic seems to have different bugs, always related to the project start marker not being on 1 1 1 1. Which is why I gave up the habit of doing it many years ago when I first noticed the bugs. I haven't moved my project marker ever since, but have always been able to reproduce bugs in nearly every Logic versions since. Another typical example is (was, haven't tried it in 10.3) when copying automation from one track to another: with the project start marker at a place other than 1 1 1 1, the copied automation would be out of sync. 

 

Everything in a project is referenced to the project start marker: region starts, region ends, audio region anchor positions, tempo events, time signature changes, key signature changes, automation points, markers, arrangement markers, positions in the Transform window, sync setting positions, etc etc.... and it seems, Logic is having trouble getting all of those right in any single version of Logic. That's enough for me to make the decision to never move the project start marker at a place other than 1 1 1 1. 

Thank you David... muchly appreciated..

1.1.1.1 is non-intuitive, since all math originates from 0.0.0.0. Even SMPTE starts at 0. But it's the LPX way. Resistance is futile.

While you're right about maths in general, counting from 1 is not "the LPX way", it is how musicians have counted music since ... musicians started counting. The first bar is bar 1. The first beat is beat 1. You don't count four beats as "0, 1, 2, 3...", you count "1, 2, 3, 4". 

 

I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful to have a 0 bar or even negative bars in Logic - but starting to count from 0 is not a standard concept in western music notation. 

I appreciate that. But a region of music that begins a song actually begins at zero on a true timeline. The first bar honestly begins at zero and ends at 1, just like when you are born, you start at zero, and when you are a year old, you are now 'one', and not 'two'. I think a 1-2-3-4 count out is a different thing, and not analogous. The first beat is '1', but the first measure can be referred to as the 'first' measure, or 'measure 'one', and sure, that is a common way to think of it, but in LPX 'one measure' has not passed the timeline until you get to 'two', so I find that unintuitive.

 

A song does not begin one bar into the song. You may think this just a difference in terminology, but if LPX 10.4 said 'the start point is now 0.0.0.0 or 0.1.1.1', I'd probably think that less arcane than what we have currently.

 

It is also easier to think 'the intro is 8 bars so I can scroll to 8 to find the first verse'. But no, in LPX, you scroll to '9'. When a solo starts on bar 37 and ends on 45, that is a little harder for me to wrap my head around than 'Oh. the 8-bar solo starts at 36 and ends at 44.'

 

I guess that's just me still having issues with 'higher math'. I am going to try to think of where the timeline marker for each bar is, is actually at the end of the bar rather than at the beginning, I guess. 5 will get you 8 that will confuse me even more.

We need Pre-roll, negative measures, whatever you want to call it... There is NO COMPELLING REASON why it shouldn't be available and many why it should.  

 

Harumph!!!!

a region of music that begins a song actually begins at zero on a true timeline.

Not in standard western music notation, where it starts at bar 1, beat 1. And Logic follows standard western music notation. Throughout your post you keep referring to "in LPX" but it's not a LPX specific behavior: any software that follows standard western music notation starts counting bars at 1. 

 

 

We need Pre-roll, negative measures, whatever you want to call it... There is NO COMPELLING REASON why it shouldn't be available and many why it should.  

I agree Dan, and that's certainly not the point I'm debating. 

I agree Dan, and that's certainly not the point I'm debating. 

 

I didn't think you were..Just that I'm hoping this gets addressed.  It's a surprisingly annoying thing...

Even SMPTE starts at 0. 

Nope. SMPTE starts at 1:00:00:00:00.

Interesting how everyone looks at it different and i understand each persons view of it, i myself just use the marker track and mark out the whole song and just do everything to that and don't pay much attention to the bar numbers, but yes in a perfect world(or Daw) it would make sense if things were on the 2. 4 and 8s, when i first started w Logic way back i use to start songs at 0 because i figured that's how it was done, but then experienced weird stuff from time to time, so now i start it like at bar 8 and just use the marker track to navigate around and don't pay much attention to the bar numbers, just interesting how everyone focuses on different things

Even SMPTE starts at 0. 

Nope. SMPTE starts at 1:00:00:00:00.

 

Sorry. Nope. It starts at 1:00... in LPX.

In broadcasting, where SMPTE timecode is a religion, and where I was a Maintenance Engineer for decades using it daily for FOX TV, it starts at 0.

Odd. In 30+ years of working in TV, Film and commercials... I've never received a file or tape that started at 00:00:00:00  In film.. the hour refers to the reel number. So Reel one starts with 01:... reel 2 02:... etc.

I want to add one negative bar befor bar one so i can put in a little riser intro. 

You can add negative bars by dragging the project start marker (to the left of the ruler) toward the left however it is recommended you never move the project start marker to any place other than the default 1 1 1 1 because of several unexpected behaviors. 

 

Yes very unexpected bad behaviors, ugg. When dragging audio tracks in and using the tempo beat controls I have done this minus dragging by accident a few times somehow. Once you have created a minus situation, is there a foolproof way to re-set things back to normal (aside from undo) or do you just have to try dragging the start marker back into positive and hope for the best?

Forgive me if this suggestion is irrelevant or unhelpful, but my solution is, I always just move the entire project to like, bar 17. Then I have plenty of room for something like this, a long extended intro if I want it. When I bounce, I always set it at the beginning of the song, not bar 1. So I will bounce from 16/4/4, something like that. This works well for me. The final result is the exact length and starts from exactly where you want, so in my opinion, it doesn't matter where you start from, as far as the timeline is concerned.

On 2/3/2017 at 6:48 AM, fusbur said:

All we need now is the ability to renumber bars - or is that in LPX now

That would be great. Bump that idea.