Logic Quantization is driving me bats

A lot of times it seems that no matter what I do, I can't get simple MIDI notes to quantize correctly. I just played in 4 notes. I want to quantize them to quarter notes in the Inspector. I Select Quantize 1/4 notes, but the notes are not moved far enough and do not line up with the 1/4 note bar lines. So I go into the Piano Roll editor and and same thing, cannot get this very simple line to quantize. Note, this does not always happen. Then to make matters worse, it seems like you can get into this never-ending game between quantizing in the Inspector and the Piano Roll Editor. Even quantizing them to whole notes does not work, they're still off the barlines.

In the attached pic, the quantization is set to whole notes in the Inspector, but you can see it's off.

This all seems so unintuitive to me compared to how it is was when I used DP. I wonder if somebody explain this to me. I've re-read the passages in the manual countless times hoping that I've missed something, but I just can't get it right in this particular session. Thanks.

I go through this all the bloody time myself. It's been going on for years (Logic 7, 8, 9). So you are not alone.

You said you've re-read the manual, but still I'd like to double-check one thing with you... Logic's quantizing is built around this really unusual paradigm wherein the bar/beat/tick position of the left edge of a region is the point from which quantization is determined. So if you have a region which contains an unquantized note but the region's left edge doesn't start right on a barline or subdivision (8th, 16th, etc.), when you quantize that note it will quantize to a position relative to the position of the left edge of the region, not relative to the nearest actual bar or beat on the grid.

Nice.

Personally I don't see any purpose for this specific behavior. I think it's an "interesting" idea that it works this way, but for 100.0% of the music I write (and that spans many styles) there has never ever been a situation where this behavior has been of any advantage. And I can't say I've ever read a post where someone said, "yeah, this is cool" or "it's a life-saver" or "I can't live without it". Anyway... to show you how this works, see the screenshots below. The piano roll is showing the contents of two regions simultaneously. Each contains a note at the same position (93•1•1•11). The green note is in a region whose left edge is right on bar 93. The red note is in a region which starts a few ticks before the downbeat of 93. When I quantize the notes to 8ths, the result is shown in the bottom screenshot. One is on the money, the other is, well you can see for yourself. BTW, the two green vertical lines denote the edges of the regions.

Now... as I said, I sometimes get the behavior you described. But even in cases where the left edge of one of my regions is "off" and I deliberately adjust it to be on the beat (expressly for the purpose of quantizing something) I will often get the same confounding behavior you described -- the notes just won't ***** quantize.

So I just want to be sure you're aware of this left-edge-of-the-region-position thing, even if that doesn't solve your problem (and even if it doesn't work as advertised in Logic...).

Wow...thank you man. That was it!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't know anything about this. Nowhere did I ever come across that in the manual.

This is bizarre behavior compared to the DP world I was used to, where the whole paradigm is totally different. I guess I can understand it, but can't think of a single situation where it could come in handy.

You just saved me countless hours of frustration. I gotta tell you, this particular forum is like none other I've ever seen. The degree of help here by you and the other smart moderators is unique. You don't see that anywhere else, as far as I know. Thanks again man...

Personally I don't see any purpose for this specific behavior. I think it's an "interesting" idea that it works this way, but for 100.0% of the music I write (and that spans many styles) there has never ever been a situation where this behavior has been of any advantage.

When working fast, I have found this a really useful, rough and ready way to nudge parts of a cue by a few frames in either direction. It allows the regions retain their timing, even though they are off the grid.

In fact, I would say that, yeah, this is cool, and occasionally it's a life-saver. I can't live without it.

The only other times I have come across the type of behaviour you describe, it has turned out to be caused by (and entirely consistent with) a region's specific q-range and q-strength settings. So my advice is to double check these settings aren't causing your problems.

Tom

The only other times I have come across the type of behaviour you describe, it has turned out to be caused by (and entirely consistent with) a region's specific q-range and q-strength settings. So my advice is to double check these settings aren't causing your problems.

 

Tom

Thanks, yes I always check these settings, it's really the region start that was throwing me off.

Glad to be able to help you out 63strat.

When working fast, I have found this a really useful, rough and ready way to nudge parts of a cue by a few frames in either direction. It allows the regions retain their timing, even though they are off the grid.

Interesting approach. Here's mine, FWIW... when I wanted to slip an entire cue off a few frames I alter the movie start time (when working quickly), or, preferably the SMPTE position of the tempo events (as long as there aren't too many). In the case of slipping the movie start time I just make sure I print/pop my file based on the picture's timecode instead of Logic's.

In fact, I would say that, yeah, this is cool, and occasionally it's a life-saver. I can't live without it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah....                 

The only other times I have come across the type of behaviour you describe, it has turned out to be caused by (and entirely consistent with) a region's specific q-range and q-strength settings. So my advice is to double check these settings aren't causing your problems.

I'll keep that in mind, for sure. But... I never use any of the extended q parameters. It's pretty black and white over here... I either hard quantize stuff or don't quantize at all. If you have any suggestions as to why else this problem could crop up I'm all ears (or eyes, as the case may be).

I want to quantize them to quarter notes in the Inspector. I Select Quantize 1/4 notes, but the notes are not moved far enough and do not line up with the 1/4 note bar lines. So I go into the Piano Roll editor and and same thing, cannot get this very simple line to quantize. Note, this does not always happen.

Greetings Strat.. I am fascinated by this discussion and never encountered the problem you describe, though it must be valid as backed up by Ski's imaculate erudite illustration ).

Just one thing - you talk about quantizing in the 'Inspector' and then the Piano Roll .. do you mean the Arrange? I cant get a picture of your working method. The Inspector is in the Arrange or Score Editor, whereas the Piano Roll just has that keyboard on the left.

* * *

FWIW my failsafe/idiotproof method for quantizing in Logic which involves:

• always using the Piano Roll and always rubber banding groups of notes I can see - ( never use the Inspector or quantize in the Arrange window with regions,... which may be where the Logic's idiosyncracies let you and Ski down)

• setting the Division first in the Transport Bar via KC so the grid in the Piano Roll always gives a clear visual background against which to see the quantize

NB !!! • you do not say if use the Quantize menu in the Piano Roll - ( to the right of Edit Functions View ) - I always use this and it then moves the notes right up to the bar lines and the grid. (Trying to replicate your problem I found that if this was set to OFF(3840) .. quantizing moved the notes randomly to useless places... )

• Three other essentials for good quantization: I use the KC for Remove Overlaps, also rubber band a group of notes then OPTION + SHIFT and click hold the RH side of the selected notes to make them all the same length and Transform: using the Transform Sets to Quantize note length to exactly a quarter note, eighth note etc

.. though i may have completely misunderstood the plot

HTH

M S

Just one thing - you talk about quantizing in the 'Inspector' and then the Piano Roll .. do you mean the Arrange? I cant get a picture of your working method. The Inspector is in the Arrange or Score Editor, whereas the Piano Roll just has that keyboard on the left.

Thanks for the tips. Yes, I was referring to the Inspector in the Arrange window. I use this because it offers a Quantization Strength Option which I have not been able to find in the Piano Roll quantization. Plus, I've gotten used to having things Quantized automatically on input, and this is not as bad a thing as I used to think it was.

Yes, I was referring to the Inspector in the Arrange window. I use this because it offers a Quantization Strength Option which I have not been able to find in the Piano Roll quantization

Actually, quantization in the Piano Roll will adhere to the advanced quantize settings (e.g. Quantize Strength) set for the region, in the Inspector. So, if the region Quantize Strength is set to 90%, the Piano Roll Quantize will also quantize by 90%.

If you want to override the region quantize settings, you will need to Apply Quantization Destructively (Ctrl-Q) before quantizing in the Piano Roll.

Tom

@63strat:

You're welcome!

Be aware that if you adjust the extended region parameters, any individual note quantization that you've done in the Piano Roll will snap back to its original position. Sometimes this is useful, but if you don't want it to happen, the solution (again) is to Apply Quantization Destructively (Ctrl-Q), prior to adjusting the extended parameters..

@Ski:

... when I wanted to slip an entire cue off a few frames I alter the movie start time (when working quickly), or, preferably the SMPTE position of the tempo events (as long as there aren't too many). In the case of slipping the movie start time I just make sure I print/pop my file based on the picture's timecode instead of Logic's

Sounds like a good quick method too ... but if I did that, I would most likely forget to return the movie start to the correct position, until 2 or 3 cues later.

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

... well you did leave the door wide open ...

If you have any suggestions as to why else this problem could crop up I'm all ears (or eyes, as the case may be).

I'm out of ideas, but if you encounter the problem again, I'd be interested to take a look if you post the offending Logic file. It's definitely a weird one.

Tom

Sounds like a good quick method too ... but if I did that, I would most likely forget to return the movie start to the correct position, until 2 or 3 cues later.

Two to three cues? Nah, you're a sharp cookie. I'll bet it'd take you only 1 - 2 cues before you went, "GAH!" and cursed at me under your breath...

Yeah, yeah, yeah....

 

... well you did leave the door wide open ...

Well... See, if figures that YOU'D be the guy to actually find a use for that.

[insert winky here]

If you have any suggestions as to why else this problem could crop up I'm all ears (or eyes, as the case may be).

 

I'm out of ideas, but if you encounter the problem again, I'd be interested to take a look if you post the offending Logic file. It's definitely a weird one.

I'll take you up on your offer for sure. Many thanks!