Plax Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Hi everyone. I bought a Studio Logic VMK 161 master keyboard and it's great. The only thing that's driving me crazy is the lack of octave shift commands. This keyboard has nothing at all to shift down to C1 and C0 octaves, and I absolutely need them to play and trigger keyswitches. Does anyone know how to solve this problem? Does Logic have some trick to shift octaves with no use of pitch shifting or plugins like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Easy. Click on the background of the arrange page. Then set the transpose parameter in the Inspector to -12 (or whatever value you want). This adjusts the "MIDI Thru" parameter for transpose. Here, "MIDI Thru" is an adjustment made to all incoming MIDI data (until you change it again). Velocity is another MIDI Thru parameter you can adjust. There are other solutions too which involve a tiny bit of environment programming so that you can adjust the octave using a control on your keyboard. Post back if you want details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 Ski, thanks for your reply. I already tried your tip and obviously it works. The problem, though, is still there because even though Logic gets the single note I want, my keyboard still sends the same signal. A C2 stays as a C2, regardless of any transposing. If you have some time I'd like to know a bit of the programming thing you were mentioning. It would be much appreciated. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) Gotcha. What's happening here is that the MIDI Thru adjustments are applied to the region. One thing you could do is set up a key command for "normalize" which will take the realtime parameter adjustments ("MIDI Thru settings") and apply them destructively to the data in the region. Example: if you recorded a C3 and your MIDI Thru transposition was at -12, after doing the normalize thing you'll see a C2 in the region. After you normalize, the realtime parameter settings for the region will be zero'd out. Meanwhile, the MIDI Thru adjustments will remain in force for anything else you play in (until you change them). Search your key commands for "normalize" under the Arrange window heading. If you'd like to set up an environment which transposes the input without having to resort to the MIDI thru and normalizing routine [EDIT] see my next post. Edited July 31, 2010 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 Here are your options: 1. You have one switch on your controller which you dedicate to switching the octave down -12 and back again to zero. In operation, Switch On = transposed, Off = normal 2. You use two switches on your controller, one which increments the octave down (-12, -24), another which increments the octave up (+12, +24). In operation, you'd hit the first switch 2x to transpose the keyboard two octaves down. You'd then hit the other switch 2x to bring the keyboard back up to the normal octave. 3. You have three switches. One which increments the octave down, another which increments the octave up, and another to instantly reset to zero. For each of these you must specify which CC you're going to use for each function. But please keep in mind that in offering to build this for you (or at least show you how to do it), please specify your minimum requirement. In other words, if all you need is #1, please don't ask for #2 or #3 if you really don't need that kind of functionality. Thanks for your understanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted August 1, 2010 Author Share Posted August 1, 2010 Thank you again Ski. What I was looking for was #2: this is the octave shift function I had on my previous master keyboard (it was an Edirol) and I think every keyboard should be like that (talking about 4/5 octaves master keyboards obviously). If you have some time to explain #2 I'll be happy to learn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Do you have a link to the manual for that model? Most of the Fatar's have some sort of Transpose feature. You may want to use a few of the Lowest keys and change their values via the Environment. The rest of the keyboard can remain intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plax Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 Thanks for that. The manual I got with the keyboard is really short and doesn't mention any keyboard editing feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Looks like Shiv sorted you out. But lemme know if you still need that environment thingee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BvC Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Here are your options: 1. You have one switch on your controller which you dedicate to switching the octave down -12 and back again to zero. In operation, Switch On = transposed, Off = normal 2. You use two switches on your controller, one which increments the octave down (-12, -24), another which increments the octave up (+12, +24). In operation, you'd hit the first switch 2x to transpose the keyboard two octaves down. You'd then hit the other switch 2x to bring the keyboard back up to the normal octave. 3. You have three switches. One which increments the octave down, another which increments the octave up, and another to instantly reset to zero. For each of these you must specify which CC you're going to use for each function. But please keep in mind that in offering to build this for you (or at least show you how to do it), please specify your minimum requirement. In other words, if all you need is #1, please don't ask for #2 or #3 if you really don't need that kind of functionality. Thanks for your understanding. I would actually love to know how to do number 2 here. The Yes/+1 and No/-1 buttons on the synth that I am using as a MIDI controller (Yamaha DX-11) are capable of sending MIDI messages (I know, as I had assigned them to pan up and down), and I need to assign them to octave up and octave down, respectively. I am using Logic 9, Mac OSX 10.6.7, and am using an M-Audio Fast Track Pro as an audio interface. (Bear with me; trying to abide by forum rules.) Glad I did my research before posting a new thread. I hope this gets noticed, as it's something I've been trying to accomplish for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 If you can, enter your system's info in your user profile (signature section). OK, that aside... Before I post more, I need to confirm what CC values are being sent from the inc/dec buttons. I'd imagine that they'd be CC's #96 & 97, but please confirm (press those buttons and then look in Logic's transport, MIDI monitor section). Once I know what those values are I can post an environment for you that will do the octave switching thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BvC Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Thank you for your reply, ski. They are indeed CC#s 96 (inc) and 97 (dec). I've checked with Logic, as per your request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Cool. I'll post something for you later this evening. Stay tuned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Glad I checked in here. That normalize command is just what I've been wanting, for the same reasons Plax mentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 (edited) OK, here ya go: CC#96 and CC#97 change the octave. Two octaves down, two octaves up, and the normal octave, of course. I didn't put the environment objects (components) into a macro, but that can be done very easily if you want to compact the whole thing. Anyway, here's how it works: Input Transpose On/Off Button • When off, the entire environment "circuit" is bypassed, i.e., normal operation • When on, hitting CC#97 repeatedly decreases the octave (-2 octave max) and hitting CC#96 repeatedly increases it (+2 octaves max). The green "octave" menu will display the current transposition. • When you select an octave setting, notes will be transposed on input, meaning that incoming notes are transposed on their way into Logic. Changing the octave has no effect on the playback of regions already recorded. • All non-note MIDI commands pass through this scheme unaltered • You can also change octaves by click/hold/dragging on the green Octave menu • The CC#96 and #97 buttons are for testing purposes. If you don't need them, feel free to delete them (select them, hit delete). Caveat: do not hold down notes while you switch octaves. Otherwise you'll create "stuck notes". Should this occur, however, simply start and stop Logic and the stuck notes will be silenced. 9697 Octaves Ski v1.1.logic.zip Edited September 28, 2011 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Wouldn't a $3,000 Zenriffer keytar work just as well? It has those two octave buttons already built in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Jordy's a friend of mine, so maybe I'll send him an email and see if he's up to the challenge of doing the same thing on a DX11! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Oh he would look so cool with an eye patch ... I should try this on the DX-7. I think you have other environment versions of this from way back when. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Oh he would look so cool with an eye patch ... Y'know, I do think you're right about my posting something like this a while ago. Hmmm... Oh well, second time's a charm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BvC Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 OK, here ya go: CC#96 and CC#97 change the octave. Two octaves down, two octaves up, and the normal octave, of course. I didn't put the environment objects (components) into a macro, but that can be done very easily if you want to compact the whole thing. Anyway, here's how it works: Input Transpose On/Off Button • When off, the entire environment "circuit" is bypassed, i.e., normal operation • When on, hitting CC#96 repeatedly decreases the octave (-2 octave max) and hitting CC#97 repeatedly increases it (+2 octaves max). The green "octave" menu will display the current transposition. • When you select an octave setting, notes will be transposed on input, meaning that incoming notes are transposed on their way into Logic. Changing the octave has no effect on the playback of regions already recorded. • All non-note MIDI commands pass through this scheme unaltered • You can also change octaves by click/hold/dragging on the green Octave menu • The CC#96 and #97 buttons are for testing purposes. If you don't need them, feel free to delete them (select them, hit delete). Caveat: do not hold down notes while you switch octaves. Otherwise you'll create "stuck notes". Should this occur, however, simply start and stop Logic and the stuck notes will be silenced. Utterly amazing! Thank you! I had no idea this could be done in a way that was so easy for me. I suspected you'd tell me how to do it, not do it for me! It's nice to know there are people in the world who are eager to help a stranger out of plain goodness. I truly appreciate it. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the increment button is currently making the octave go down, and the decrement button is making the octave go up. If there's no quick fix for this, I can work around it. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Feh! Of all the 48 or so buttons on my AN1x controller not one of them outputs CC#96 and CC#97! The increment buttons seem to output whatever patch number the keyboard is currently on. Well, the normalize command is my new friend here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 It's nice to know there are people in the world who are eager to help a stranger out of plain goodness. I truly appreciate it. You're very welcome. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the increment button is currently making the octave go down, and the decrement button is making the octave go up. If there's no quick fix for this, I can work around it. Um... I was just testing you to see if you were paying attention in class. OK, please revisit the original post and re-download the new (and corrected) file I just posted there (version 1.1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Feh! Of all the 48 or so buttons on my AN1x controller not one of them outputs CC#96 and CC#97! The increment buttons seem to output whatever patch number the keyboard is currently on. Well, the normalize command is my new friend here. While I'm on the subject... Here's a special one for ya, cuz you're a "special case" (considering what's going on with your keyboard, that is). Right. With this variation on the environment programming you can select any CC (preferably a button) to do octaves up and down. 9697 Octaves Ski v1.2 for Camillo.logic.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BvC Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 It's nice to know there are people in the world who are eager to help a stranger out of plain goodness. I truly appreciate it. You're very welcome. Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the increment button is currently making the octave go down, and the decrement button is making the octave go up. If there's no quick fix for this, I can work around it. Um... I was just testing you to see if you were paying attention in class. OK, please revisit the original post and re-download the new (and corrected) file I just posted there (version 1.1). Incredible! Works perfectly! This will make life so much easier for me. If you had told me Logic could get the +1 and -1 buttons on my 1988 synth to shift octaves up and down, I'd have said you're crazy! This has brought me much joy. Thank you x 10^99! Now I am wondering what else can be accomplished through environment manipulation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BvC Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Wow, and even the DX-100 I'm thinking of buying to be my portable MIDI controller (good because it's battery powered, and all I'll need is a USB to MIDI cable) has the same +1/Yes -1/No buttons. I can keep the same environment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Wow ski, you are a prince! As it turns out there is only one button that outputs CC data on my AN1x, the on off portamento button, which toggles CC 65 at value 1 or value 127. OTOH, there are eight rotary controllers which spit out CC 41 to 48 with the usual 1-127 range. Would any of these work with this "special edition" octave switcher? EDIT: Ok, I've got this working. Having tried it out, I see why a button would be better than a rotary control knob for this purpose. So what I've done is assigned the one button that outputs CC data to the upshifter transform and one of the rotaries to the downshifter. The rotary knob almost always overshoots but having that one button makes it all work - I can just zap down to the bottom octave with the rotary and then use the button to bump up if need be. Thanks again ski! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 Jordy's a friend of mine, so maybe I'll send him an email and see if he's up to the challenge of doing the same thing on a DX11! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camillo jr Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb398446 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Hi Ski, On behalf of all MIDI controller users everywhere without octave shift available, thank you! I have a peculiar problem that I can't figure out how to mold into your last template. I have a Nord Electro 3 HP and it doesn't shift octaves within Logic 9. $2,600 later and it can't do that? I'm still in disbelief. It does have two "octave shift" buttons however, and they transmit 1 29 00, 1 29 32, 1 29 64, 1 29 96, and 1 29 127. The problem is they share the 29 cc AND depending on where the octave shift left off....the octave up or octave down button transits different messages. How could I make it so that: 1 29 00 corresponds to "-2 Octave" 1 29 32 corresponds to "-1 Octave" 1 29 64 corresponds to " 0 Octave" 1 29 96 corresponds to "1 Octave" 1 29 127 corresponds to "2 Octave" Thanks! Justin Edited March 12, 2013 by jb398446 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 You're welcome! This should be an easy mod. Let me make sure I understand the behavior tho... If you hit Oct Down enough times, it will eventually transmit CC#29, 0 Then if you hit Oct Up two times, it will generate 32 followed by 64 Then if you hit Oct Down one time, it will generate a value of 32 Is that correct? If not, please post back. Once I understand the behavior I can attempt a mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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