So I want to love Logic. Really. Please.

I get core overloads, crackling sounds or unusable lag with software monitoring and often with playback.

 

To me the amazing thing about Logic (in theory) is its ability to use awesome compression and plugins in realtime. A bunch of the vocal strips and settings make me wanna sing or talk in a creepy voice and make music but as soon as even a couple tracks are open I have to set the buffer to unusable delay-flanging levels. Or you can freeze tracks (takes forever) and still crashes/crackles me often. Logic provides an arsenal of amazing sounds and processes but how to actually use them in any sort of stable/functional way boggles me.

 

Direct monitoring is not the answer for me; Any schlubby program can apply effects post (like the usefully bundled Soundtrack Pro). I make music from how something feels, and lagged out and/or crashing interruptions are not translating well. The realtime nature is what I'm after. Without the plugins Logic Pro 8 is rickety and useless compared to other offerings.

 

 

Today I got excited and opened a new project with 2 software instruments and an audio track. I opened a single audio file and didn't even record anything on the software instrument tracks when i core overloaded. For crying out loud Garage band can play more than 3 tracks simultaneously without CPU spiking and Logic crashing. I have tried and played with the buffer size and safety buffer. I have closed other programs and even run the script mentioned here (http://logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=16909&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=1e23f82ad4ae52fbe1d83a4efb50081e)

 

Would the duet or some sound card help this problem? I have a 24" 2.4ghz alum imac with 4GB RAM and Leopard and the lack of productivity has plagued me from the start and continues with 8.0.1 patch. I am currently using a mic pre into the audio-in jack on the imac and keyboard input for software instruments. For a system well-above the minimum requirements, this is disappointing.

 

Anyone with a similar machine and/or insight into making logic plugins work in realtime in ANY song with 3+ tracks? I've got some great songs just begging to be recorded:)

 

ps (i have also tried the low-latency button to no avail)

Wow, pretty bizarre situation. I'm sorry to hear it.

 

One place to start would certainly be actually using an audio interface. I can't even imagine using the 1/8 in as a way of getting audio into the Mac. That should solve your audio issues right there, I'd think.

 

I don't have Leopard yet, as Logic 8 on Tiger is the most powerful and stable DAW (and program, really) that I have ever encountered. It may be that you are running into some Leopard compatibility issues with your settings or any third-party plugs or instruments? I'm just speculating here, as I'm not encountering these problems and I don't have Leopard.

 

Also, are you recording to the internal drive of your iMac? And does it have at least 10% of its space free?

 

Any other suggestions, anyone? This sounds like something David will likely chime in on. Let's see if we can get your situation straightened out.

Wow, pretty bizarre situation. I'm sorry to hear it.

 

One place to start would certainly be actually using an audio interface. I can't even imagine using the 1/8 in as a way of getting audio into the Mac. That should solve your audio issues right there, I'd think.

 

--i would like to think so, but for my example today I used software instruments and an imported audio file only -effectively not even using the 1/8" input and it was crackle/overload city

 

I don't have Leopard yet, as Logic 8 on Tiger is the most powerful and stable DAW (and program, really) that I have ever encountered. It may be that you are running into some Leopard compatibility issues with your settings or any third-party plugs or instruments?

 

--No third party plugs or instruments have been introduced.

 

 

Also, are you recording to the internal drive of your iMac? And does it have at least 10% of its space free?

 

--I'm writing to the internal 7200rpm drive on the mac and it is at least 50% free (of 320GB), Problems existed prior to installing leopard.

 

Any other suggestions, anyone? This sounds like something David will likely chime in on. Let's see if we can get your situation straightened out.

 

--thanks for the response

yup. You're on experimental ground with Leopard, but Logic8 works great on my laptop with it.

 

no doubt about it...you need an external drive for your Logic Sessions, and an external audio interface.

no doubt about it...you need an external drive for your Logic Sessions, and an external audio interface.

 

what do you mean about having an external drive for the sessions, dk?

 

I purchased a firewire 500gb external recently but don't record onto it. I just backup the files.

 

Should i record directly onto it?

yup. You're on experimental ground with Leopard, but Logic8 works great on my laptop with it.

 

no doubt about it...you need an external drive for your Logic Sessions, and an external audio interface.

 

Dave,

 

I do have legit original Tiger CDs, and I would resort to that if it would do the trick, though Leopard is pretty awesome and I could see that not being fun.

 

I know it's necessary, but what impact would an external audio interface have on the issues described? Are you able to use realtime effects via software monitoring on 3+tracks on your laptop? Anything buffered over 64-128 sounds jarring to my ear.

 

So this is not the generalized experience? It can actually work as it's supposed to? Maybe someone with the same computer has a success story.

 

thanks for the input

Should i record directly onto it?

 

Simply put...Yes!

 

have a good one

3Eo

yeah..what he said I can't not say specifically if the issues you are having can be directly related to recording to the internal drive, but, without a doubt, you just do NOT want to do it. Record to that 500 gig external, and get a 2nd drive for your archiving.

 

On my laptop, just using an mBox2 Pro for an interface (I know, I know..I haven't bought a Duet yet)... I've run 20 EXS's, 3-4 auxes full of plug ins, and 15 stereo tracks of audio. Piece of cake. I usually leave my buffer at 128 for tracking, and bump it up for playback.

 

your iMac should scream..especially with the amount of RAM you have.

 

Did you do the Leopard install, or did come with it installed? I _HATE_ formating drives and reinstalling and OS. I JUST HATE IT...and I even hate to think about doing it. But..you may want to do just that..Go back to a squeaky clean Tiger system, a clean install of L8 Pro, and see how it works...

 

BUT..there are plenty of people using Leopard...so I'd look to the interface/drive as a place to start. Tough call, really.

My problem is:

 

the interface i use is a Presonus Firebox with a firewire 400. The external drive is firewire 400. How do i make that work.

 

i could use USB, but that won't work well!

 

what should i do in this situation?

I don't have any experience with the Presonus stuff...so hopefully someone else here can help.

 

but...since your iMac only has one FW 400 port, I'm assuming you're chaining the interface and drive together? If so..THAT could be the issue. Does your external drive have a FW 800 port?? Most newer drives do..

 

Try an experiment..take your drive out of chain so that the interface is the only thing plugged into your FW port. Try doing a session on your desktop/internal drive, and see if you still have issues. (and don't get in the habit of doing Logic Sessions on your internal drive). This is just for troubleshooting.

dave,

 

i kinda hijacked the thread!

 

i'm not having any issues now with saving/interfaces

 

i'm just trying to figure out how to make my interface work with my new external hard drive. I'm running a brand new 15" macbook pro with Logic Studio.

 

the external is a Western Digital 500 GB firewire 400X2...it also has ESATA

 

thanks and sorry for the confusion in this thread

 

g.

same thing applies...use FW 400 for your interface, and FW or eSATA for your hard drive.

 

here's a cool little eSata card...

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Apiotek/EC0003D/

thanks alot, i'm going to be looking to get that shortly.

 

how does eSATA compare to firewire and USB?

eSATA is the fastest

eSata is definitely the fastest but for the real benefit of eSata comes in to play when using a RAID.

 

eSata is only a little faster than firewire800 when using a single drive.

 

However when you RAID two eSata drives together you get a huge speed boost up to 300 mb/sec (i think). With a firewire RAID you don't get as much of a boost

Hi Actually back to the originaql issue.....YES Logic8 sucks..Period....It does whatever it wants to do whenever it wants/....I will say this again..I got toally talked DOWN to before...But the thruth is..It is a poorly coded app.. And I again I question the capabiliies of the Logic team..If they coud be called a team..

 

I reallt want this program to work...But the simple fact is is doesn't......WHY?????

 

Why is it such a piece of crap after how many years????

 

Many have no issues..WOW how precious they are..But folks like myself..Have never ending issues....

 

 

 

So WHY is..that the case????........Man I wish it would just work..But it doesn't.....JON.

Hey, I'll say this one more time. If there are various people experiencing problems with Logic 8, but at the same there are also a bunch of people who are NOT experiencing those same problems, that means one of two things:

 

1) Either Apple sent out a bunch of good versions of the application, alongside a bunch of corrupted ones.

 

2) Or most of these problems are system-, settings-, or user-related.

 

Which do you think is more likely?

 

That said, this is in no way a criticism of those having trouble. Quite the contrary. It is a good sign, meaning that most of these things are likely not world-ending, universal bugs, but are largely fixible, which is why this site exists, and why we're all here participating on it. Does it mean that Apple and the Logic developers have created a perfect product with no holes, or that they aren't in part responsible for this? No. The finickiness of the system-, settings-, and user-specific issues might itself be at least partially a result of bad code, etc.

 

But the fact that a bunch of people are using Logic 8 every day in a really deep, intensive way, and aren't experiencing these frustrations, means that these troubles should be something we can get to the bottom of. 8)

ok, I gotta say I'm gonna go with dk on this one. Having your system setup properly is a big deal in how smooth your experience is going to be. First off I'd always start from a clean install of OSX, custom, without all the languages and printer drivers. Then install a custom install of logic with the libraries (exs,loops stuff) on your external drive. Do a software update. Then disk utility>repair permissions, and restart. Have your projects on your external drive. Don't use the internet and whatnot, while in session. A decent audio interface, and some monitors, and your in business. 4gigs of ram is great. I have 12 but haven't noticed a huge difference since I had 6. Also, third party stuff should be kept up to date (as well as your os), I'm not saying you have to go to leopard-just make sure its the latest version of that os i.e. 10.4.11 or 10.5.1. I would also say to stay away from cracked software as usually u will have an older version (problematic), and it's not fair to the people who make the stuff for us. Once you have everything setup right, I don't think there will be many problems. Oh, also remember that while in a lower latency that many processor hungry plugins may cause some delay. I guess one way around that would be to record in flat no plugs in a low latency (64). Bump it up to 256 or 512 and add those plugs in after. Logic is awesome. Let's be positive. 8)

Hi Actually back to the originaql issue.....YES Logic8 sucks..Period....It does whatever it wants to do whenever it wants/....I will say this again..I got toally talked DOWN to before...But the thruth is..It is a poorly coded app.. And I again I question the capabiliies of the Logic team..If they coud be called a team..

 

I reallt want this program to work...But the simple fact is is doesn't......WHY?????

 

Why is it such a piece of crap after how many years????

 

Many have no issues..WOW how precious they are..But folks like myself..Have never ending issues....

 

So WHY is..that the case????........Man I wish it would just work..But it doesn't.....JON.

 

I'm going to try some of the things that Dave and others have suggested to try and keep an open mind about it, but I have to admit some of my lurking thoughts over this process has been 'Apple cut the price in half of Logic Studio since it is really only a half functioning app that is unpredictable' or something to that extent. So far, software from the 1990's works better and can allow more tracks to play at once than this 'PRO' software. But other people who have similar setups and are problem free makes me want to exhaust all options before giving up.

So next on my platter is scoring an interface and external FW800 drive and following with a fresh OS reinstall...

 

I just hope I'm not buying more stuff and investing in something that is caused by other issues where there may be no answer. In a good number of threads there are people with interfaces, external drives that are getting the Core Audio Overloads, crackling sounds, and crashes very frequently. Maybe I can purchase simultaneously so I can have 30 days or whatnot to produce a functioning setup. I'll make sure to share my findings with you people, whether positive or negative.

 

j

Edited January 6, 2008 by amputease

well, I have to say that I pretty much agree with amputease. I was a really happy logic pro7 user during 2 years with a powerbook G4. Since I changed to macbook pro (tiger) and logic studio i have anything than troubles, unestability, updates and crashes nightmares ....everything except workflow and concentration in my music. I's seriously thinking on going back to protools. In a positive way I like the new distribution and workflow possibilities of logic 8 and the plugins & presets are reaaly great i wish it gets stability if not it's no worth it. Probably there is some people happy working with it but I read really a lot of complains and i understand it ...it's getting harder to keep positive

Nacho

Hi Actually back to the originaql issue.....YES Logic8 sucks..Period....It does whatever it wants to do whenever it wants/....I will say this again..I got toally talked DOWN to before...But the thruth is..It is a poorly coded app.. And I again I question the capabiliies of the Logic team..If they coud be called a team..

 

I reallt want this program to work...But the simple fact is is doesn't......WHY?????

 

Why is it such a piece of crap after how many years????

 

Many have no issues..WOW how precious they are..But folks like myself..Have never ending issues....

 

 

 

So WHY is..that the case????........Man I wish it would just work..But it doesn't.....JON.

 

Wow. I've been in your position and I know how easy it is to say something "sucks" because it doesn't work for you. There are two issues to consider, though:

 

1. Logic doesn't work the way you want it to, but it does work, or

2. Logic doesn't work because something isn't right, such as Logic itself, or (as others have pointed out) your system is flawed.

 

As I said, I have been in your position before, so I know how frustrating this can be, but I would have to remind you that Logic doesn't "suck" for a lot (most) of us. I would therefore list the possibilities in this order:

 

1. Your system has some issues that causes Logic to be unstable, or

2. You are doing something outside of the design of Logic, or

3. Logic is coded wrong and your particular system keys in on those flaws.

 

Logic isn't perfect, by any means. I don't have tremendous experience with Logic (either Pro or Express) but I am diving into it head first. I too have run across some issues with Logic, and issues with other elements, such as SoundTrack Pro. But, I have to stop short of saying that it simply doesn't work and "sucks."

 

I hope you get things working for you, or move on to something else that does work. Best of luck.

Hi

 

I want Logic to work OK....I love the program....I just went thru the clean instal thing last weekend (third time,macbook Pro 2.1ghz OSX.)...Still on any given moment I encounter stops and starts....In my opinion there should be no issue here what so ever..I open the same snippet of a song..3 tracks no FX..And at any moment Logic just craps out....It is frustratingly hard to record when ..whenever Logic wants to stop it does...I really want to use Logic..I have Live and Reason And will continue to use them...But my main DAW is Logic..

 

So the dilema continues as to what it is that is wrong..However the most frustrating thing of all is that Apple nor the Logic team have said NOTHING at all....If they are incapable of producing a quality product then the least they could do is be in anyway possible of help...JON

oops repost sorries Edited January 6, 2008 by amputease

Hi

 

I want Logic to work OK....I love the program....I just went thru the clean instal thing last weekend (third time,macbook Pro 2.1ghz OSX.)...Still on any given moment I encounter stops and starts....In my opinion there should be no issue here what so ever..I open the same snippet of a song..3 tracks no FX..And at any moment Logic just craps out....It is frustratingly hard to record when ..whenever Logic wants to stop it does...I really want to use Logic..I have Live and Reason And will continue to use them...But my main DAW is Logic..

 

So the dilema continues as to what it is that is wrong..However the most frustrating thing of all is that Apple nor the Logic team have said NOTHING at all....If they are incapable of producing a quality product then the least they could do is be in anyway possible of help...JON

 

I wish I could help you. I really do. I just don't have much experience with Logic at the moment. However, I am installing Logic on my MacBook as I type this, and things might go sour for me. We'll see, but at least on my Mac Pro everything is currently working fine. I am waiting for an update to Logic/SoundTrack Pro, though...

 

I just wanted you to know that I have felt your pain and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Hi

 

I want Logic to work OK....I love the program....I just went thru the clean instal thing last weekend (third time,macbook Pro 2.1ghz OSX.)...Still on any given moment I encounter stops and starts....In my opinion there should be no issue here what so ever..I open the same snippet of a song..3 tracks no FX..And at any moment Logic just craps out....It is frustratingly hard to record when ..whenever Logic wants to stop it does...I really want to use Logic..I have Live and Reason And will continue to use them...But my main DAW is Logic..

 

So the dilema continues as to what it is that is wrong..However the most frustrating thing of all is that Apple nor the Logic team have said NOTHING at all....If they are incapable of producing a quality product then the least they could do is be in anyway possible of help...JON

You mention that "Logic just craps out" when running only a few tracks. Does this happen mainly with software instruments (pianos, organs, strings, etc.)?

 

If so, it may be that you are just experiencing one thing that IS universal at this point: even with settings finetuned, buffers in their best spot, etc., when you first open up a project (saved or new) and press play, there will be a software overload the first time you come to a software instrument of any complexity whatsoever. This is a result of Logic having to, essentially, finish loading up or caching the instruments. It's an annoying little blip, to be sure. But it just happens at the beginning, and is easily dealt with. If you know that it's always coming, and that it just takes a quick "spacebar" (play) "return" (get rid of error message), "return" again (back to start), and "spacebar" (play again), you're all good. I just do this every time I open a project, to clear the cobwebs, if you will. It takes literally two seconds, and there's never again another blip.

 

I do hope that they address this in further updates, but now that I know it's there and that it isn't going to keep coming back throughout my time working on a song, it ends up being just a very minor annoyance and nothing that impinges my workflow or ability to make music.

 

As for your audio snaps, crackles, and pops, that is very likely mostly a matter of not having an audio interface. The interface is not just a way to get sound into your computer, it is a separate soundcard that processes all of the audio in and out -- sort of like the difference in graphics between running just off your computer's main board, or having a dedicated graphics card.

 

The external drive will increase performance markedly (as well as extend the life of your all-important internal, system drive), but it isn't likely involved with the specific problems you're dealing with here (though taking any weight off of what your computer and internal drive themselves are having to do is not a bad idea). Still, once you have an interface, you should be able to deal with dozens of tracks without freezing on the internal, even if it is a 5400rpm one.

 

So my advice would be:

1) get an interface immediately -- search around on the forums, read on-line reviews, look at compatibility with various DAWs in case you ultimately find that Logic isn't for you, etc.

2) definitely be ready to get an external HD -- I'd totally recommend this overall, but it shouldn't be the main source of your problems here

3) then fine-tune your buffer settings, software monitoring, basically everything under Logic's "Preferences>>Audio" to find where Logic plays most nicely on your system.

As for your audio snaps, crackles, and pops, that is very likely mostly a matter of not having an audio interface. The interface is not just a way to get sound into your computer, it is a separate soundcard that processes all of the audio in and out -- sort of like the difference in graphics between running just off your computer's main board, or having a dedicated graphics card.

 

this is not correct. in fact using the internal sound card is a troubleshooting measure because it elimantes any problems with third party drivers. if you are using an internal sound card then even consider a simple AD/DA converter to improve your monitoring experience.

 

- the issues you are having are likely to do with your buffer setting. could you post these for our perusal?

 

- check console (appleications/utilities) and have a look at what either system or console has to say while you are experiencing the crackling.

 

- can you give us a list of any third party plug-ins or applications that might be running at the same time? eg unsanity ape or kontakt or something not made by apple?

 

its worth just clearing up some things here....

- your internal drive will be able to handle quite a bit when using logic - think what it can do with DV when using imovie. if you are having problems it may not necessarily be because of lack of drive badnwidth.

- plug-ins that do a lot of complicated computation such as sculpture and space designer are what eat CPU bandwidth. don't confuse streaming audio and CPU processing.

- from everything i have read here, an audio interface is not likely gong to make the slightest bit of difference.

- nor is an external drive, as your track counts are very low.

- which is not to say that either are not a good idea. an external drive for audio and samples (as well as storing your projects) would be a very good idea, and an interface or AD/DA converter would improve your monitoring and probalby your mixing.

 

without a doubt there is some deeper issue causing your problems:

 

what buffer setting?

what sample rate?

have you got the latest proapp installed?

are running other apps (doing other processing)

how full is your internal drive?

what 3rd party stuff is going on?

do you get pops and clicks with itunes and other things using system sound?

 

 

you have a fairly up-to-date computer. logic should work fine.

I think everyone is giving good advice, I'm gonna jump in as well, even thought I can't be specific with your setup. I wouldn't give up on Leopard just yet, at least, i wouldn't go crazy and wipe you disk yet. Here's what I would do:

 

1) Get an external Firewire drive, you'll be accomplishing two things with that process. The first is that Logic and all the other DAW's are more comfortable writing real time audio to a separate disk than the one the program is on. They have to physically be in two places at once if they have to find resources on one disk and write to it at the same time, is a simplified way of thinking about it.

 

2) Install Tiger to your brand new, fresh Firewire drive. You can boot from it by holding "option" down as your computer boots up. From this point you can see if Tiger is really more stable for you or what when you run Logic.

 

3) Get some kind of interface- I use, among other things, the Line 6 Toneport UX2 for guitar, it's not expensive and is a breakout soundcard with guitar amp modeling attached with it. I see you like to play guitar anyway, it looks like you have a nice Jazzmaster or something in the photo there... anyway, that may not be for you, it's not so great for vocals or whatever, but get something . the Apogee Duet would be even more ideal, it works well with Logic (it's designed to anyway) and is said to sound great.

 

4) Download Leopard Cache Cleaner from Version Tracker- it's shareware, and you should donate to the guy eventually. From there you can have that program repair your permissions, and under "Optimize-Optimize RAM-Optimize Files" you can defrag your hard drive, which will tune your system up for you. Do everything under the "Maintain" area of Leopard Cache Cleaner as well. These are just good things to do anyway.

 

Do all these things, keep an eye on your buffers, and I'd bet you'll be OK. I can't guarantee anything, but you know Logic works, you've heard it here, so you know it is your system and what you are doing with it. As has been stated, that's good news. Good luck!

Just want to add to this, some people are suggesting you go all out and buy a new interface etc.

 

My setup is a core 2 duo 2Ghz macbook w/ 2gb RAM & leopard, lower specs than your machine, i have an Alesis multimix 8 firewire, however sometime i just run straight from the headphone out to the phono input of the desk, I don't get any issues with this setup, when when playing tracks from the hdd (upgraded to a 7200rpm 100gb), i'm currently working on a 30+ track song, all audio no midi and not getting any issues with latency etc.

 

Please bear this in mind before going out any buying new gear, it may very well be unnecessary, hove you considered going to a local apple store and speaking to someone at the Genius bar?

 

Hope you get it sorted though, Logic 8 is so nice once you get it going!

 

Good Luck

It's true: it shouldn't really matter what interface you use to a degree. But the Toneport is a soundcard, so you can see the advantages of using a better one than the iMac comes with.