9.1.6 and Spinning Beach Ball - More Info

I spent an hour on the phone today with one of my colleagues who is a network engineer, looking at and analyzing what Logic 9.1.6 does when it starts up..

 

I don't have any firm answers for why exactly some people have the SBOD issue but I can tell you that he confirmed 9.1.6 does some extra checks online when it starts up compared to 9.1.5 and earlier versions.. and maybe some of this information might be of some use when troubleshooting this issue.

 

We ran the tests from a client's computer who is having the SBOD issue. I was not present at this location for this test but the Network Engineer was. This computer is a fresh install of SL 10.6.8 and Logic 9 upgraded to 9.1.6 via the file download..... No other software was installed other than the stock apps that come with both SL and Logic Boxed Set.

 

During the tests we noticed several things happening... and please note, this is what we observed with this clients computer. It may be different with different setups or configurations and hopefully some feedback here would help determine if this applies only to those using 10.6.8 or not...

 

So the question is why is this happening and what's changed?

 

The first thing 9.1.6 does when starting up, is it tries to contact audiocontentdownload.apple.com.... We assume it is checking for either updates of some kind to Logic itself... or it is determining if you have downloaded any extra audio content and if there are any updates to that extra content..

 

If you browse to that address you get a single webpage with the word 'test' appear....

 

The next thing that happens is that Logic then tries to connect with iCloud... In this case via the mDNSresponder service to p04-btmmdns.icloud.com

 

The actual address may well vary depending on your location and routing.. and load on that particular server at the time Logic tried to connect.

 

In the client's case... it was these two connections that got hung up on occasion... causing long pauses... and the spinning beach ball.. It was hard to discern which one exactly was causing the most issues but it was certainly one or the other that was causing the hangs in Logic as if all internet connections were disabled (Either WiFi or ethernet) then these two 'checks' were skipped completely and Logic started up and ran projects without issue at all.

 

It's not opening a project that causes any issue.. Its the start up routine of Logic and these two 'checks' that doesn't finish in time before a project opens that causes the SBODs as was observed by the Network Engineer..

 

Normally eventually the checks are skipped or completed and then the SBOD goes away and Logic works as normal.. but on two occasions this was observed as not being the case and the SBOD continued on until Logic was closed and restarted and then the next time around it completed both checks in a timely fashion.. and logic worked as normal.

 

So.. it certainly appears to be a bug.. though if it may not be directly connected with Logic itself but some issue with outside connectivity and iCloud and 10.6.8 and how Logic checks certain things....

 

More info as and if i get it...

 

UPDATE: When I say it isn't specifically a bug in Logic 9.1.6 what i mean is it isn't a bug that is specific to Logic itself but Logic in combination with another factor.. or service, that is causing the issue... and it seems to be pretty much isolated to those running SL so I'm thinking it could be more related to iCloud because of how iCloud is configured in Lion and not SL..

Does this happen with Software Update enabled or disabled? If it's enabled, suggest you try the test again with it disabled.

In either case, this is ridiculous. The program is SUPPOSED to work in SL. Then they put in a start up routine that relates to something that is totally un-related to SL (iCloud) without an option to disable it. More Apple absurdity. I'm thinking of switching to Ableton. For programming purposes of course.

Guitarman, is "downdating" to 9.1.5 an option for you? If so, I suggest that move and don't bother with the 9.1.6 phone-home nonsense.

Does this happen with Software Update enabled or disabled? If it's enabled, suggest you try the test again with it disabled.

 

Checked.. It makes no difference either way as the check is not related to the Software Update routine....

Guitarman, is "downdating" to 9.1.5 an option for you? If so, I suggest that move and don't bother with the 9.1.6 phone-home nonsense.

 

Ski,

 

He has already 'downdated' to 9.1.5 according to his earlier posts in another thread and his sig...

In either case, this is ridiculous. The program is SUPPOSED to work in SL. Then they put in a start up routine that relates to something that is totally un-related to SL (iCloud) without an option to disable it. More Apple absurdity. I'm thinking of switching to Ableton. For programming purposes of course.

 

While I agree with the sentiment.. I think it's also worth bearing in mind that this issue is not affecting everyone using SL and 9.1.6.. in the same way it affects you and a few others... and it is that difference, I am trying to focus on.. What are the differences between systems where there is the same issue you have and those where this isn't the case.

 

I'm not able to reproduce your issue on my 10.6.8 and 9.1.6 system....no matter what I do... or try... and according to other posts I have read, I'm not the only one with the same setup who doesn't have this issue to the degree you and other's have...

 

In my opinion.. it has to be an 'interaction' issue.. otherwise it would affect everyone running 9.1.6 in 10.6.8

 

Something that is causing Logic to demonstrate this issue.. be it network related.. or different configuration or whatever... and as there seems no sign of Apple fixing it in short shrift... then I thought I'd give it a go and see if I (along with others) can identify the true cause of the issue and how to fix it apart from turning off WiFi and/or Ethernet.

Possible fix...

 

In Logic..

 

Preferences/sharing...

 

Make sure that everything in this window is UNCHECKED...

 

Then test and see if that resolves issue

 

The client I worked with today had his Mobile Me configured to backup Logic's settings. Turned this off and now he doesn't get the never ending SBOD issue.. though he does still get a delay upon opening Logic ands then a new project in quick succession.

 

Need more people to test this to know if this was really a possible solution...

Edited December 22, 2011 by n6smith

Just a thought... would little snitch perhaps be of any help to circumvent that?

Just a thought... would little snitch perhaps be of any help to circumvent that?

 

Actually, I've found out by talking to a few people.. that turning off Little Snitch can make the issue go away for some... Not sure why exactly, that would be the case as i would have thought blocking Logic would have made it skip the check.. but anyhow..

 

Maybe someone with the issue and who has LS installed.. could try and disable LS and see if that fixes it for them?

Hi n6smith,

You might be on something with the System Pref/Sharing pane. I never got the SBOD once since upgrading to 9.1.6 on 10.6.8. All my options are unchecked in the Sharing pane.

 

Blink

Further Info....

 

Upon checking my own system 10.6.8 and 9.1.6 upgraded via Software Updates...

 

My Logic makes three connections upon startup..

 

Audiocontentdownload.apple.com.edgesuite.net (Yes, I know it reads odd but that's the exact address..)

 

Configuration.apple.com.edgekey.net

 

and..

 

a1778.b.akamai.net

 

Not sure why mine would connect to different servers than my client who is running an identical OS and Logic version.. Maybe location?

Hi n6smith,

You might be on something with the System Pref/Sharing pane. I never got the SBOD once since upgrading to 9.1.6 on 10.6.8. All my options are unchecked in the Sharing pane.

Blink

 

Thanks Blink...

 

Mine are all turned off too and no issue.. But turning them on after updating doesn't seem to cause an issue either...

 

Maybe they had to be on prior to the update for the issue to occur?

Hi Nigel, thanks for trying to sort this out. No Little Snitch here. Sharing in Logic preferences was and still is unchecked. Makes no difference whether software update is on or off. Beach ball of postponment appears for two lengthy intervals, then 9.1.6 seems normal. Yanking out ethernet cable cures everything, but not a viable option. I'm going back to 9.1.5, ironic because I went from Leopard to SL just because some bandmates with newer systems had the Logic update. It didn't even come up on my software updater under Leopard. An attempt to "keep up" with an aging machine that I love, and I suspect Logic X will require Lion. One major OS update at a time is all I can stand. Thanks. I'll continue to try whatever you can think of, hopefully you'll beat Apple in fixing this. - Emile

Nigel,

 

Is there anything built into Mac OS, or an app (like maybe the Network Utility) that will let someone see the details of ethernet traffic?

 

Also, when you network guy was looking at the data being sent to apple, was there any (meaningful) response? Just curious...

***UPDATED*** Corrected address to ping to..

 

Hi Emile,

 

There are two different things going on here that are related.

 

1) The never ending spinning Beach ball.. which turning off the sharing stuff seems to fix

 

2) The spinning beach ball that eventual stops spinning (and this usually happens twice as you observed)

 

Two pauses and two checks done by Logic.. seems a bit coincidental...

 

So, it's this second type that we still need to work on.. and I think we can do a quick test if you are up for it?

 

Try pinging and then running a traceroute to audiocontentdownload.apple.com and see what results you get.

 

To ping and traceroute use the network utility app in your Applications/utilities

folder

 

I'm wondering if some people are having connection/routing issues to that server?

 

if you could paste up your results for both, that would help a great deal... (Blanking out your own IP of you wish)

Edited December 22, 2011 by n6smith

Ski.. GMTA in regards to pinging and tracing the route at least via NU..

 

A packet sniffer would be useful too i suspect but i don't have one...

 

As far as what came back.. I frankly don't know.. I think the Network Engineer was just looking at outgoing traffic to see what was being sent and to where..

 

I'll ask him tomorrow if he noticed or logged any responses back..

Ski,

 

There is a 'packet sniffer' of sorts built into Lion for WiFi.. but not in SL it seems.. However I'm going to give it a shot under Lion just to see what comes back myself, if anything...

 

http://blogs.aerohive.com/blog/the-wireless-lan-architecture-blog-3/using-mac-os-x-lions-new-wi-fi-diagnostics-tool-

 

Thought I might also give wireshark a whirl and see if i can see anything of interest via that...

 

http://www.wireshark.org/docs/

Nigel - Wonder if I'm doing this right. I just punched in audiocontentdownload.com, hit ping and got:

 

Ping has started…

 

ping: cannot resolve audiocontentdownload.com: Unknown host

 

Same thing and hit trace in Traceroute and got:

 

Traceroute has started…

 

traceroute: unknown host audiocontentdownload.com

 

So am I doing this correctly? - Emile

Sorry Emile,

 

My error....

 

Audiocontentdownload.apple.com is the correct address..

 

or...

 

Audiocontentdownload.apple.com.edgesuite.net

 

which is the one that SL uses

I don't recognize my IP address in here anywhere, here's the data I got back. Thanks! - Emile

 

Ping has started…

 

PING a1284.g.akamai.net (72.247.146.160): 56 data bytes

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=10.642 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=9.374 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=7.802 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=8.933 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=7.255 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=5 ttl=59 time=8.876 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=6 ttl=59 time=7.759 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=7 ttl=59 time=9.174 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=8 ttl=59 time=6.983 ms

64 bytes from 72.247.146.160: icmp_seq=9 ttl=59 time=8.575 ms

 

--- a1284.g.akamai.net ping statistics ---

10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0.0% packet loss

round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 6.983/8.537/10.642/1.049 ms

 

 

 

Traceroute has started…

 

traceroute: Warning: Audiocontentdownload.apple.com has multiple addresses; using 72.247.146.147

traceroute to a1284.g.akamai.net (72.247.146.147), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets

1 192.168.2.1 (192.168.2.1) 1.055 ms 0.384 ms 0.323 ms

2 * * *

3 433be089.cst.lightpath.net (67.59.224.137) 6.910 ms 9.148 ms 8.937 ms

4 rtr1-ge1-13.mhe.hcvlny.cv.net (167.206.34.129) 11.056 ms 10.905 ms 9.456 ms

5 a72-247-146-237.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (72.247.146.237) 9.170 ms 10.418 ms 10.365 ms

6 a72-247-146-147.deploy.akamaitechnologies.com (72.247.146.147) 8.803 ms 10.630 ms 9.604 ms

Thanks Emile..

 

Nothing 'bad' going on there, as far as I can tell... with your connection to that server..

 

Back to the drawing board I guess...

Thanks for trying. - Emile

...And the Story Continues!

 

I recently updated my studio machine to 10.7.2 and I'm now experiencing the 5 second stall.

When Logic has finished loading there is a small gap of unresponsiveness until I can open my start template.

 

The only solution to get rid of the lag is to disable my Ethernet connection.

Did anyone find another solution to this problem?

 

PS. This is only happening on my Mac Pro which isn't configured with an Airport card.

Everything works perfectly fine on my Mac Book Pro.

Nigel, belated thanks for your replies to my previous posts.

 

Curious about something... looking at the sharing prefs in 9.1.5, they're all unchecked, and I think those are the default settings (I've trashed my prefs once or twice in the past and never even looked at those settings before, so that's what's leading me to believe that "unchecked" is the default for all). Wondering if in 9.1.6 they're enabled by default?

Ski,

 

I believe that for whatever reason my "Backup all my settings on MobileMe" setting was checked and I unchecked it but that could well be because it was checked prior to the update to 9.1.6. I have to do a fresh install of Logic on a clean computer this weekend so I will take a look and see if 9.1.6 changes any of these preferences from all unchecked to all/some/only one checked or not...

Edited January 13, 2012 by n6smith

Eric,

 

First, make sure all sharing prefs in Logic are turned off and unchecked and then test...

 

If that doesn't cure it.. then...

 

Did you have MobileMe set up on your MacPro prior to upgrading to 10.7.2?

 

Did you also turn on iCloud?

 

 

If so.... Go to Lion's Prefs/MobileMe and Turn off iDisk if it is active.... and see if that improves matters

 

If not... then also try.... If, when creating your iCloud account, you had to change your MobileMe password in order for you to be able to use iCloud.. Go to Lion's Prefs/MobileMe and sign out and sign in to MobileMe using your new Password and again, see if that fixes things for you...

I believe that for whatever reason my "Backup all my settings on MobileMe" setting was checked and I unchecked it but that could well be because it was checked prior to the update to 9.1.6. I have to do a fresh install of Logic on a clean computer this weekend so I will take a look and see if 9.1.6 changes any of these preferences from all unchecked to all/some/only one checked or not...

 

Yeah, good idea to check up on those checks to see if they're checked; but if you've checked the checks and they're checked then unchecking those checked checks might be the way to checkmate this network checking chicanery.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

First of all! Thanks for responding so quickly!

You are a star in the sky.

 

Eric,

 

First, make sure all sharing prefs in Logic are turned off and unchecked and then test...

 

It has never been checked so that's not the issue.

 

Did you have MobileMe set up on your MacPro prior to upgrading to 10.7.2?

 

No

 

Did you also turn on iCloud?

 

Yes, i did.

 

If so.... Go to Lion's Prefs/MobileMe and Turn off iDisk if it is active.... and see if that improves matters

 

It is not active and has never been.

 

If not... then also try.... If, when creating your iCloud account, you had to change your MobileMe password in order for you to be able to use iCloud.. Go to Lion's Prefs/MobileMe and sign out and sign in to MobileMe using your new Password and again, see if that fixes things for you...

 

This doesn't apply to my situation.

 

It's really strange. Switching of the ethernet in System Preferences certainly works... but that is not a good solution.

Any other thoughts?

Did anyone find another solution to this problem?

 

This is the solution I'm using:

 

 

J.