automate Smart control with Step Editor?

I am wanting to use the step editor to automate a filter plugin which is not a midi enabled FX plugin. It seems like the best way to do this would be to setup a smart control that maps a knob to the filter cutoff plugin, then assign a midi CC to that knob and then I can use the step editor to sequence the automation.

 

However, for the life of me I can't figure out how to assign a CC assignment to a smart control knob without actually having a midi controller to LEARN it from. Is there some way to manually configured the external CC assignment for a smart control by typing it in somehow or configuring manually in some way through the Logic GUI rather then using LEARN?

 

Alternatively, are there any other approaches some can think of for using the step sequencer to automate plugin parameters which are normally accessible through track lane automation, but not directly accessible via midi. The step sequencer only sequences midi.

so I don't think its possible to assign a CC without some kind of keyboard connected to use the LEARN function.

 

But it may not matter because even after I was able to assign, for example, CC102 to a Smart Control knob using a software virtual keyboard, this worked to adjust the smart control just fine. But midi CC102 data recorded on a track has no effect on the smart control during playback. Smart Controls must get their midi input directly from the incoming midi and appear to bypass the environment entirely....thus...its not possible to automate the movement of smart controls via midi.

 

It is easily possible to use a smart control to control automation, but apparently the only way to record it into a track is via track automation... It is not possible, apparently, to record CC info in a track and use that to drive some automation in some way.. Unless I'm missing something. Does anyone know how I can use CC data on a track to drive automation of plugin parameters or other channel parameters that are normally automated via track or region automation?

 

I want to use the step editor or perhaps another 3rd party midi step sequencer to drive the automation of some plugin parameters...

To access a plugin outside of Logic, have you considered using the IAC bus through an External MIDI track?

Yep, I was just about to update this thread that I just did that. If I create an external midi track to IAC and loop it around, then I can easily automate a number of different ways, including through the smart Tools, but also quick external automation can be driven that way too, and different things. This actually works pretty well, though its not sample accurate.

Ok next question. I can get that to work, but when its going through a smart control, it only works on the currently selected track. Select a different track and the midi doesn't hit the needed smart control to do what it needs to do.

 

So how can I get incoming midi to route through to the desired track always...and translate to automation in the process?

 

problem still not solved...

I think that you would have to Record enable the desired track(s), setting (their) discrete MIDI channel(s) and set the recording project setting to Auto demix by channel if multitrack recording.

the problem is that the way the smart control works, the midi coming in from IAC does not feed into the sequencer input of the environment...it bypasses the environment to go to the smart control. The smart control is not enabled unless that track is selected, doesn't matter whether its record enabled or not.

 

Remember the desire here is to map the midi CC to an underlying plugin parameter.. That normally happens through track or region automation, but in order to have incoming midi do it...you have to intercept that midi and send it to the automation section. When you use the LEARN button to do this for a smart control, it happens way before hitting the sequencer input, so what you're suggesting above does not work.

The step sequencer only sequences midi.

 

The Step Editor can do Fader events as well. That's the type of event Logic uses for track automation:

 

 

J.

That's great, I missed the opportunity to select the "status" field of the step editor lane to a "Fader" type. However, how do you get that assigned to a particular plugin param? When I do that, the number field has 127 numbers, without labels, I can't figure out how to assign a fader to a plugin parameter for automation this way. I have new hope again....

the problem is that the way the smart control works, the midi coming in from IAC does not feed into the sequencer input of the environment...it bypasses the environment to go to the smart control. The smart control is not enabled unless that track is selected, doesn't matter whether its record enabled or not.

 

Remember the desire here is to map the midi CC to an underlying plugin parameter.. That normally happens through track or region automation, but in order to have incoming midi do it...you have to intercept that midi and send it to the automation section. When you use the LEARN button to do this for a smart control, it happens way before hitting the sequencer input, so what you're suggesting above does not work.

Smart Control being a graphical implementation of surface controls (which gets hijacked), and does not reach the sequencer as you mention. But to record CC (which could be used as automation, as is) you don't need to go through the Smart Control process you describe. CCs gets recorded into a MIDI region like the notes events...

Why do you need to use Smart Controls?

Why not set your controller to send a specific CC to your external plugin, which you set the desired parameter to react to, and record also that in Logic?

the problem is that the way the smart control works, the midi coming in from IAC does not feed into the sequencer input of the environment...it bypasses the environment to go to the smart control. The smart control is not enabled unless that track is selected, doesn't matter whether its record enabled or not.

 

Remember the desire here is to map the midi CC to an underlying plugin parameter.. That normally happens through track or region automation, but in order to have incoming midi do it...you have to intercept that midi and send it to the automation section. When you use the LEARN button to do this for a smart control, it happens way before hitting the sequencer input, so what you're suggesting above does not work.

Smart Control being a graphical implementation of surface controls (which gets hijacked), and does not reach the sequencer as you mention. But to record CC (which could be used as automation, as is) you don't need to go through the Smart Control process you describe. CCs gets recorded into a MIDI region like the notes events...

Why do you need to use Smart Controls?

Why not set your controller to send a specific CC to your external plugin, which you set the desired parameter to react to, and record also that in Logic?

 

I'm still not following you. I have a region full of CC messages. How do I send them to a specific parameter of an FX plugin? I agree smart controls probably won't work. Can you please tell me how to route the data from the region to the plug parameter? I haven't been able to discover the way.

 

I do like the above suggestion to use fader events, but still, those are labeled as merely numbers 0-127 fader events, no labels and I have no idea how to associate one of those with track automation, particularly to a specific plugin parameter.

I figured out how to make it work. Basically in the environment I first setup a monitor to listen to the channel where I have the plugins instantiated. then I moved a knob on the plugin I want to automate. This showed some bytes in the environment monitor, which indicated a Fader type event with a channel, and first byte which is the fader number and a second byte with the data.

 

Then I closed the environment and used that channel and fader# in the track step editor to create a lane and configure it as being a fader event with that noted fader# and channel.

 

that's all it took, it works perfectly...step editor controlling the desired plugin parameter.

 

Its possible I may need to use the environment after all though, in order to turn 0-127 data value range of the step editor into whatever range of values are expected at the plugin parameter. So it might be necessary to insert a transformer in there, but not a big deal...

 

Now looking at it, its also a bit easy to maybe figure out what that fader number should be by inspecting the channel. it said channel 3 fader 34, in this case. When I open the controls view of the plugin, its the 35th parameter down the list(starting at zero), in other words parameter 34 of that plugin. Its the second plugin in the channel. So I guess channel 1 must be the fader itself, channel 2 is the first plugin, etc.. And one potential gotcha I can see is that if any plugins are inserted above the one in question later on, then the channel number will need to be increased here in the step editor in order to find the correct plugin to automate.

 

Its not quite as clean as when you use normal track automation and they actual names are identified by LPX and saved that way, it won't matter if you change the order of the plugins on the channel, etc..and you will see them clearly..

 

But hey..if you want to use a step editor to automate something..this is how..it totally works....and quite well...

Just out of curiosity, why don't you use just plain vanilla automation? I find it so much easier to edit than events...

Often times plain old vanilla automation is definitely exactly the right thing. Where the step editor really shines is trying to do tempo synced FX, or creating rythmic patterns using the step editor which automate plugin parameters to accomplish. Can be done with track automation but what happens in track automation is that when you set an automation point, while it can snap to the grid if you like, it's end creating a sloped fade line towards that point. Sometimes that is desirable too and when so track automation is awesome. If you want more of a stair steppy pattern and particularly if you are trying to make rythmic patterns then the step editor is super easier and just cleanly quantizes automatically the parameter changes, whatever they may be

Thanks, I see what you mean.

Okay, so are you saying that the environment is necessary to create these lanes in the step editor? Jordi, how exactly did you create those fader events? Is there a way to do this without the environment?

The environment is not strictly necessary you just have to know which fader number and channel to use, which you can discover in the environment as I described above, but once you know it...you can just assign that fader controller to the step editor lane and it works.

 

However... if you insert another plugin above the one you are controlling, the fader channel would change, FYI.

 

Also, the range of various plugin parameters are not always 0-127. Sometimes they might be 1-10 or whatever. So...you might need to use a transformer object in the environment to scale down the range of what you're sending it from the step editor.

 

hang on I'll make some screen shots

So to try this.

 

Do the following steps:

 

1. Create an instrument track, use any instrument you like, and put one additional audio FX plugin on that channel. In this case I put LPX auto filter. In order to find out the fader channel/number to use, open the environment and find the mixer channel object and connect up a monitor object like show here. Then open up the plugin window and move the knob of the parameter you want to automate. In this case I moved the Resonance control. As you move the control you will see the monitor object updated with the values you want. In this case its F 3 3 37 which means fader ch=3 number=3 value=37
    
   
    
   
2. Now close the environment and go setup a new step editor lane. In the left hand inspector you can assign Status=Fader, channel=3, number=3. Make sure the channel box is checked, its not by default.
    
   

 

That's it. You can now make a step editor pattern and watch it drive the resonance control of the auto filter when you hit play.

 

However, its not perfect yet because the Resonance control actually only goes from 0-100, not to 127. So if you really want it to be awesome you should setup a transformer in the environment that scales the values down to that range. This is entirely optional.

 

1. So first you have to find out what the actual min and max values are for the control. Go back to the environment and watch the monitor object as you twist the control all the way to the max value and observe the value, as well as the minim value. In this case its 0 and 100.
    
   
    
   
2. Now add a transformer object to the environment and wire it up to the mixer channel. I named it FilterRez here:
   
    
   
3. Now double click the transformer object and setup the midi transform you need to do, which is to scale the fader. In this case divide 101/128 to get the ratio to use, in this case its ~.7890, use that as the scale transformation.
    
   
    
   
4. Also make sure the transformer object is flagged as assignable:
    
   
    
   
5. Finally go back to the track and reassign it to this transformer object instead of the mixer channel.
    
   

 

Thats it, you should be able to hit play and watch the step editor lane sequence that parameter...and the full range of values in the step editor will scale to the full range of values in the plugin control.

Even though you can use the MIDI environment to find the events it's really no longer needed.

Create a region with the parameter automation you want to edit.

Open the Step editor and it automatically creates the lane for you.

It's a little buggy and won't update the correct MIDI channel so double-check the channel in the Event list and correct this before you start editing.

Jordi, how exactly did you create those fader events?

 

The events are created whenever you automate a parameter. However, for them to be editable from Logic's MIDI editors, the events need to be part of the region.

 

Is there a way to do this without the environment?

 

Yes, several. Here's 2:

 

You can open the automation events list (Control-Command-E) and take note of the fader data's number and channel and create the events manually in the Step Editor.

 

You can convert the track automation to region automation then create a new lane set for the region's current events.

 

EDIT: I like Eric's suggestion of creating the automation directly as region automation, which has been possible since some LPX subversions.

 

J.

I like these suggestions for how to discover the fader number, but how do you create the region with the fader info in it? You lost me

I like these suggestions for how to discover the fader number, but how do you create the region with the fader info in it? You lost me

 

Set the automation to region type, set the mode to touch or latch, press play and move the control on the plug-in.

 

J.

Great. Eric's advice makes perfect sense now. Thanks!

 

This is actually really awesome I didn't realize that region automation was directly tied to the region data, similar to the midi, so basically when you draw on the step editor it updates the region automation curve accordingly also (once you manually assign the proper "channel" for the step editor lane). This also has the nice benefit of displaying that region automation curve up on the track arranger view, which is handy....even while programming it on the step editor. I like it.

 

One little weird thing about that I will ask in a second...

 

Do you have any other non-enviornment suggestion for how to deal with control data ranges that are not 0-127 that need to be scaled, or does it come back to using the environment for re-scaling 128 possible data values to whatever the control is expecting?

 

Ok one weird little thing I notice and maybe you gurus know the answer... When I did as you suggested and draw on the step editor I get the following two views in the step editor and the track region:

 

 

Notice how it creates an odd looking region automation curve that has an angled corner without a point... its matching the stair stepped quality of the step editor..which is what I would want...but the lack of a point for the right edge of that stair step is interesting and when I then attempt to move the one existing automation point, it immediately changes the region automation to this:

 

 

And at that point in time mungles up the step editor to look like this:

 

 

So what is that stair stepped automation curve and how can we adjust it from the region automation lane while retaining the stair stepped quality? If we even wanted to...I'm quite content to use the step editor for editing everything in this case, I'm just kind of asking the question to learn.

Great. Eric's advice makes perfect sense now. Thanks!

 

You're welcome!

 

Do you have any other non-enviornment suggestion for how to deal with control data ranges that are not 0-127 that need to be scaled, or does it come back to using the environment for re-scaling 128 possible data values to whatever the control is expecting?

 

Try using smart controls.

They will automatically map the 7-bit MIDI range to 0-100% in your example.

 

Regarding your last question:

 

Event list - Interpolation [bUG] [sEMI-FIXED]

 

Clicking on an automation point in the tracks are should fix this.

I will have a look at smart controls, in the past when I tried to do that I couldn't seem to find a way to send the step editor directly through the smart control... Can automate the smart control...but the step editor bypasses the smart control and goes straight to the fader. Something like that. The only way to automate a smart control, I think is to either draw it on the automation lane...or assign an external controller to control it and record it to the automation lane that way through the smart control, but going to the Step editor doesn't go through the smart control that I can find. But maybe I'm missing something?

 

I will take a look at the automation interpolation thread you mentioned tonight., but I just want to say that clicking on the automation point is exactly what causes the problem to occur. it changes the right angle shaped automation curve to a diagonal line with all the interpolated goodness (or badness) in between changed. The right angle stair stepped automation curve is lost.

I just want to say that clicking on the automation point is exactly what causes the problem to occur. it changes the right angle shaped automation curve to a diagonal line with all the interpolated goodness (or badness) in between changed. The right angle stair stepped automation curve is lost.

 

I thought you didn't want that bracket without automation points. My bad.

You can shift-select the area you want to move to keep everything intact.

Maybe I'm still misunderstanding, but clicking on the automation point immediately changes it from a right angle curved on to a sloped one. I can shift select that one and the next one, but can't do anything with it, if I try to click on the control point it immediately converts it from a right angled curve...to a sloped one... somehow this this right angled curve is a hidden feature in Logic and its created like that by the step editor, but there is no way that I can find to create one myself in the automation lane...or to edit an existing one...

My understanding is that you want to move the plateau.

Here's a small demonstration of what I meant:

 

if you look closer at the image I provided earlier, you can see that there is no automation point on the lower right corner of the shape.. see this:

 

 

This is some kind of hidden curve type. Normally when you have two automation points then they are either connected by a straight line or a curved line...but I don't know how you would create this right angle type of connection between the two control points...

 

if you click on the one automation point in the lower left corner shown here, the entire shape immediately changes to a typical sawtooth, with diagonal lines going from it to the two points before and after it.

 

I can see no way to create one of these types of automation curves....though the step editor is doing it.. And I can see no way to edit it, without it automatically reverting itself back to the sawtooth shape again...

if you look closer at the image I provided earlier, you can see that there is no automation point on the lower right corner of the shape.

 

I've already acknowledged this?

 

I thought you didn't want that bracket without automation points.

 

This is nothing strange.

It's an automation point at that position. It holds until next automation point, that's all. You can create the same thing using the Event list.

 

What are you trying to do?