okok Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 hi how can I use a midi-fx on a individual multi-instrument channel. when I patch a midi-plug in it always appears on ALL multi-instrument channels. thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Since the multichannel instrument uses Aux channels configuration (onto which you could not instantiate MIDI Fxs, besides the master), have you considered using a summing track stack? In such configuration, the summing stack's master track containing the MIDI regions, and each (embedded) subtrack's channelstrip could be instantiated with the desired plugin and/or distinct MIDI Fx as well, allowing more freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Hmm no I don’t think so. Midifx plugin are on the instrument channel, not the sequencer tracks. I think the problem the op is facing is isolating just certain channels to be processed by midi plugins. I’m not sure the answer. Maybe the answer is no or it’s complicted for some kind of workaround. LPX is not well suited for multi instruments in general because of stuff like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Depending on what you’re needing to do, it’s usually possible to make a scripter script to do what you want and isolate channels however you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Unless I completely miss the OP point, and also not intending to contradict you here, I think my previous reply allows both scenarios. Either one MIDI track (regions located on the stack's master track) being played by different instances of a plugin (formerly a multichannel one), each loaded on each subtrack's channelstrips; which themselves also have their own distinct MIDI Fx(s) plugin(s). That way the same MIDI notes are played simultaneously by different instances of the same software instrument, but each are processed distinctively by (eventually) different MIDI Fx. Or, if different note parts (MIDI events) are to be played by different instruments from a multichannel plugin (i.e. Kontakt loaded with one violin instrument, one piano instrument and one oboe instrument), then my suggestion remains valid. However, it requires some MIDI channel concordance settings, between the MIDI events and their intended instrument's targets. In such case, it might be preferable to load a Kontakt instance on each track, one with oboe, one with piano and one with violins. And perhaps (for clarity purpose) parsing the notes events parts into each of those associated/assigned tracks, Copying/Aliasing the same region on the different tracks (while insuring the MIDI channel concordances) could also yield the same result. In latter, doing same would render the use of a stack superfluous ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 What you just described is not a multi instrument. It is multiple single instruments. And that would be another work around, “don’t use multi’s”. LPX doesn’t handle multi’s well. Generally unless there is some pressing reason to use multi’s I’d just avoid them. It can be a shame to use 8 instances of omnispheres or sampletank when it could have been done with a single multi, but see above why that is problematic In any case the op asked about multi’s and midi plugins and unfortunately that is the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 True. I was offering workarounds. Your Omnisphere's example is clarifying. Depending of the involved plugins and the actual sought effect, it may indeed not being feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 okok said: hi how can I use a midi-fx on a individual multi-instrument channel. when I patch a midi-plug in it always appears on ALL multi-instrument channels. thank you. Don't put the MIDI-FX on a multi-timbral, using External Instrument and wire in The Environment to each individual instrument in your multi-timbral. You can even MIDI record and eventually disable the External Instrument and the MIDI-FX plug-ins as well, once you MIDI record. Check out this video of what I'm talking about. {video was removed by poster} Even though I show 2 MIDI-FX at once, you can do one MIDI-FX first, then a second MIDI-FX later. And Logic Pro X doesn't have issues with multi-timbral instruments, in fact, always use a multi-timbral, don't load multiple instruments if your instrument is capable as a multi-timbral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlas007 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 ValliSoftware said: Don't put the MIDI-FX on a multi-timbral, using External Instrument and wire in The Environment to each individual instrument in your multi-timbral. You can even MIDI record and eventually disable the External Instrument and the MIDI-FX plug-ins as well, once you MIDI record. Check out this video of what I'm talking about. Enlightening! Thanx for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesK Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 ValliSoftware said: Don't put the MIDI-FX on a multi-timbral, using External Instrument and wire in The Environment to each individual instrument in your multi-timbral. You can even MIDI record and eventually disable the External Instrument and the MIDI-FX plug-ins as well, once you MIDI record. Check out this video of what I'm talking about. This is great. I actually had put a request in to Apple to be able to add midi effects to additional channels in a Track Stack multi out. I'll try this. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okok Posted December 25, 2018 Author Share Posted December 25, 2018 thanks for the feedback. I am aware of the re-recording possibility of midi-fx. but this is a very un-intuitive way of working. I hope LPX will include a more elegant solution in coming updates. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 thanks for the feedback. I am aware of the re-recording possibility of midi-fx. but this is a very un-intuitive way of working. I hope LPX will include a more elegant solution in coming updates. cheers! I'm just curious, which specific MIDI-FX plug-in are you using that you need to go to a specific instrument in a multi-timbral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okok Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 chord trigger, transpose, scaler ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 when I patch a midi-plug in it always appears on ALL multi-instrument channels. That's because all the tracks and MIDI channels are routed to a single channel strip. There's a single MIDI FX plug-in however it affects all the events that are routed to its channel strip, independently of their MIDI channels. Workaround: 1) Create a new software instrument track with the MIDI FX and an External Instrument plug-in for only the notes on that MIDI channel. 2) Create an instrument in the Environment that you route to the software instrument channel strip that has the multi-instrument. 3) Route the output of the External Instrument to the new instrument you created in the Environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okok Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 thanks david. but what do you mean by: "External Instrument plug-in for only the notes on that MIDI channel." ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Ah, that's not how I intended it to come accross.... 1) Create a new software instrument track (with the MIDI FX and an External Instrument plug-in) for only the notes on that MIDI channel. I mean you move the notes on the MIDI Channel that you want processed by the MIDI FX to that new track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okok Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 sorry... I'm not getting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 The notes you want to trigger the MIDI FX? You move those to the new track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okok Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 could you please show me a screenshot? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 @okok, what you're asking for is not that simple to setup. It can be done, but I think you will be better off if you just avoid using multi timbral instruments in this case. Most of the midi plugins provided by Apple are probably not even midi channel aware at all. They just do what they do irrespective of the midi channel of each note. The simple truth, is that in 2018-19, LPX has to funnel all midi events destined for a multi-timbral instrument, through a single midifx slot..which means there is currently no real way to have the midi plugins isolated per channel. Some third party midi plugins may be smarter about that in that they may allow you specify which channel to process within the plugin. But the ones that come with Logic are simple and kind of assume you aren't using a multi-timbral instrument. There is probably a very elaborate way to use multiple channels for midi plugins, each one handling one channel and have them all go out over IAC in order to feed back into a single multi-timbral instrument. But it would be a lot of work to setup and complicated and would not be sample accurate, if you care about that. I will try to make up a quick example project for you if I get some time today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 ps - with those kinds of IAC loop around setups, its also very very easy to accidentally get midi feedback loops which can crash LPX and cause lots of grief. The only way to get around those situations is to make the setup even more complicated, which I definitely don't have time to make an example for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 David Nahmani said: That's because all the tracks and MIDI channels are routed to a single channel strip. There's a single MIDI FX plug-in however it affects all the events that are routed to its channel strip, independently of their MIDI channels. Workaround: 1) Create a new software instrument track with the MIDI FX and an External Instrument plug-in for only the notes on that MIDI channel. 2) Create an instrument in the Environment that you route to the software instrument channel strip that has the multi-instrument. 3) Route the output of the External Instrument to the new instrument you created in the Environment. Isn't this the same thing as I posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 ps - with those kinds of IAC loop around setups, its also very very easy to accidentally get midi feedback loops which can crash LPX and cause lots of grief. The only way to get around those situations is to make the setup even more complicated, which I definitely don't have time to make an example for you... I use not just IAC but I even hardware MIDI loop back from port A to port B on my iConnectMIDI2+ and have never got MIDI feedback. If you can post a project that has that I'd like to take a look at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 sorry I don' have project to post, just a warning. IAC is not the same as using iConnect by the way. With iConnect you have discrete input and output ports. With IAC its a "Bus". So anything you send from Logic to an IAC bus automatically appears on the input of Logic. Then if you select the same track in the arrange view that is sending over IAC to ext instrument, you have midi feedback loop and likely will crash LPX soon. If you want to avoid this, you have to do more fancy stuff in the environment. Its all doable, but still my advice to the op is to avoid multi-timbral instruments if he wants separate midi plugins on each channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 chord trigger, transpose, scaler ... What's scaler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValliSoftware Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Then if you select the same track in the arrange view that is sending over IAC to ext instrument, you have midi feedback loop and likely will crash LPX soon. Sorry, that's a user error. Think about it, you want the output of a track to go to the input of the track. If that's what you want, don't use an external instrument, just keep the MIDI FX plugin on a software instrument track. Why would you setup an external instrument track for the output to go to the input of the same track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Well if you want to prevent accidental user error to get midi feedback loop, then don't loop through IAC. All it takes is to accidentally click on the wrong track header and cause the midi feedback loop to freeze up LPX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Isn't this the same thing as I posted? Maybe it is; in fact from your description it looks like it is — I did not watch your video. Honestly I have an aversion for using videos, I rarely have the time to watch them. I can speed read and type very fast so reading text is MUCH faster for me than watching a video. Sometimes very useful tool but often overused where summing things up in a few steps of text would be much more efficient for all IMO. I'm not reprimanding you for posting the video! Just explaining why I did not watch it or don't like them myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 ps - with those kinds of IAC loop around setups, its also very very easy to accidentally get midi feedback loops which can crash LPX and cause lots of grief. But the grief is temporary, it's not like a feedback loop will break anything. The only way to get around those situations is to make the setup even more complicated, which I definitely don't have time to make an example for you... Honestly it's also very very easy to purposefully prevent those feedback loops. IAC busses are very reliable and I know of many professional producers using them in their daily set up. There's nothing wrong with them, they won't break anything, you just have to be careful how you route your MIDI data to avoid unwanted feedback loops, the same way you pay attention to your audio routing during audio recordings to avoid acoustic feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 could you please show me a screenshot? thanks. Watch ValliSoftware's video, it appears to be the same technique I described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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