Is it Cheating to use presets?

If I start with a preset for like an electric guitar and then work from there, is that considered cheating? Like in a portfolio, would that be frowned upon?

Yup!! (he he he). Mischief = good.

People hear music, they rarely hear presets.

 

A Stradivarius violin might be considered a "preset", and that doesn't seem to be bothering anyone...

Of course if you dropped it ( oops 8) "hey dude, have you got a broom?"8)). That would be an attention getter!

 

Is there a Bugs Bunny emoticon?

I get what your laying down, but I'm still a bit confused

^^ No need to be confused. As long as it sounds good to you and sits well in your mix then use anything you can get your hands on.

If you're learning sound design (like you've said in some other post) it's not a bad idea to (besides learning all the theory) use presets for learning purposes. For example, you're learning a specific synthesis technique (say, subtractive) you go to a subtractive synth and check out its presets to get an idea of the variety of sounds that you can get doing subtractive synthesis. Great way to complement the theory.

 

On the other hand, to use presets in your productions? Why not? In my case, I always find myself changing at least one or two things in presets (or I skip using them altogether because it's difficult for me to even like most of them...with the exception of u-he synths). Having said this, even if you find a preset you think is just perfect, don't be afraid to tweak it a bit...you may find that by doing so you made it better than you thought it was, and in the process gave it your "personal touch".....(of course, it's either that or turning it into complete s#!+ )

 

J.

If you're learning sound design (like you've said in some other post) it's not a bad idea to (besides learning all the theory) use presets for learning purposes.

J.

 

Cool. Thanks. I just didn't want to have a final product that someone that knows whats going on (like the admissions board for grad school) looks at and says, oh he just used these presets, whatever. Also, you recognized me from my other post... I feel like I'm becoming a part of the Logic board family.

If you're learning sound design (like you've said in some other post) it's not a bad idea to (besides learning all the theory) use presets for learning purposes.

J.

 

Cool. Thanks. I just didn't want to have a final product that someone that knows whats going on (like the admissions board for grad school) looks at and says, oh he just used these presets, whatever. Also, you recognized me from my other post... I feel like I'm becoming a part of the Logic board family.

 

 

I however doubt that someone in the admissions board is going to know ANY preset by memory/ear...I mean you hear stuff like "oh, he's using the stuttering effect" or "oh, he's using the T-Pain effect"...but I've never heard anyone say "for his number one hit, it's obvious that such and such used the famous blablabla preset"...never heard it. Most likely they'll just identify the sound of the synthesis technique and/or DSP processing being used...and if your piece sounds good, with all elements complementing each other nicely, that's what they'll notice the most

 

 

J.

Any admissions board worth their salt is going to inform you well in advance of their pre-requisites, and/or entrance presentation requirements.

The other thing, those folks on any faculty are there to help you. That's their job, you are paying, get in the driver's seat. But bring them something that is going to spark their interest. They don't want to be bored any more than you do.

Show, respect, flair, fun, and workmanship. My guess is that they will show you how to use and appreciate the "key" you are carrying. What? What key?

In your own words, from another post that you put up,

 

"The thing is I like my songs".

Here's the same thing I said on Gearslutz:

 

If you use them as time-savers I don't really see any issue with it, when it comes down to it there are two types of preset users: people looking for a fast option and people looking for someone to do all the work for them.

 

I'm generally the type of user that feels confident building my own Ensembles in Reaktor, doing basic synthesis and the like, but sometimes it helps my workflow to use Presets as a jumping point, and in that regard I feel they can be helpful.

if ti sounds good, use it. Analyze it, learn from it. Many plug-in mfg spend a LOT of time creating killer presets for their Synths and effects. I use a lot of the Waves 'Artists Presets' all the time as great starting points.

 

And, yeah..sometimes I can hear a sound on a song and know exactly which synth it is.

 

USE the tools, and use your ears.

every time i pick up my spanish guitar, i'm using a preset

 

i view each preset in my plugins as separate instruments.......if i have a ned for a particular instrument then i will use it....as many times as i need to

 

people might say "oh he's using that same sound again" for a bass synth but probably wouldn't say it about my guitar

If you pick presets on a well-known synth, or included Apple Loop files, it's likely that at least a few people will spot them. (The Apple Loop drum beat from "Umbrella," for example.) When it's the actual SOUNDS that you're borrowing, it is likely that someone familiar with those sounds could recognize them.

 

That said, famous producers use untweaked or barely-tweaked presets from high end Roland/Yamaha/Korg and other such keyboard workstations all the time.

 

Effect plugin presets are much, much less obvious, though. Presumably you're running stuff YOU recorded through the plugin, so people will mostly hear the original material you recorded. They might recognize "Oh, that sounds like heavy compression with a fast attack and release time" but they won't say "That's that one compressor preset in Logic!"

IMHO - there's nothing wrong with utilizing the PreSets.

 

1) Great starting point for your tune / mix

2) You're learning something by using them (assuming you're paying attention)

3) Can be (as mentioned) a time-saver

4) Fresh perspective - you may be mixing with method "A" - but by instantiating a certain PreSet - you are now mixing with method "Z" - and would otherwise have not gone to "Z" had it not been for the PreSet

 

Just to name a few goofy reason

Have fun!

 

Scott

Presets are fine but it takes second to bring up the plug-in and adjust the values somewhat to make it more personal. With SW synths it's nice and easy, with some of the plug-in settings like compressors you might or might not want to adjust.

 

Why not use a bigger palette than the default ones when it's so easy to start from a preset and modify it?

I know this was a serious question, so don't take this as being derogative in any way. But it strikes me the same as the following:

 

I have Eric Clapton in front of me playing. Is it okay to look at his guitar or amp or any of the knobs? Because I don't want to use his "preset".

 

My reaction:

If you are smart, you are going to borrow the good from anyone or thing or situation you come into contact with... including Logic Presets. Use what is great, tweak what is okay to make it better. When you have a clear vision and want to start from "scratch" to get it, go for it.

Its not cheating actually i cannot made good pads,and orchestral patches. at least these. and so many big (i mean world famous etc like Vangelis,Jean-Michel Jarre etc) pros uses presets.

My biggest gripe with using presets is that you hear sometimes the same sounds just everywhere, ads, film music, pop songs, kind of boring hearing it yet again. For a while when Acid studio was new you could even hear the same samples across multiple ads which was depressing as it takes seconds to modify a sample.

 

Sometimes, in some music styles like trance, you are arm-wrestled into using the same sounds. Then again that's a good example of boring music.

 

Eric Clapton btw is a master concerning tweaking his Strat sound, each album sounds different.

Lipsyncing however, is definitely frowned upon.... by everyone!

Nope, it's not cheating IMO. And if it were, who would you be cheating exactly?

 

Gonna tell you some stories. But first, think about this... there are many dozens of synth and plugin developers who hire guys and girls to create presets for those instruments. Or in other cases the developer themselves have in-house people to create those presets. In any event, companies spend money to have presets made for three main reasons:

 

• to demonstrate the capabilities of the instrument

• to provide immediate gratification for anyone using the instrument, and perhaps even most imporantly...

• to INSPIRE the musicians using those sounds

 

Inspiring sounds = sales. And inspiring sounds = creativity. Now, here's how I know this... For well over 25 years I worked on and off as a freelance design consultant and preset programmer for one of the "big three" synth manufacturers. There was never a time when, after the synth we were developing was put on the market that I considered anyone who used one of my sounds to be a 'cheater'. If anything, I was always thrilled, satisfied, and even humbled that an artist -- particularly a commercially successful one -- would have chosen to use one of my sounds as a signature on their record.

 

So who, then would consider you to be cheating by using an off-the-shelf sound? That's the question to ask yourself. And if the answer is "a bunch of people whom I don't know who might happen to recognize that a sound I'm using was used on artist XYZ's latest hit record; people who, if they heard my record, might roll their eyes and opine that I was ripping off artist XYZ because I used the same sound." Are you afraid of such imagined whisperings (and stupid nitpicks) about your music? If so, learn how to program synthesizers yourself and you'll never have to deal with that kind of paranoia.

 

Or is it that you're worried about the synthesizer "purists" out there in the world who think that musical creativity is cheapened if someone doesn't roll their own synth sounds? If so, why would you care about what they think anyway?

 

There was a time, back in the late 80's doing tons of session work, when I was just such a purist. There were lots of us, actually. And it was during a time when synthesizers only just started to sport the capability of saving presets. During those days I strove to make sure that every sound I made for a record had some kind of original flair. The approach worked for me and more and more producers hired me for my original approach.

 

But then, a lesson about "originality" was to be learned when the Yamaha DX27 and TX81z came out. These featured a patch called "Lately Bass". It quickly became a favorite amongst dance producers, and thus it became almost a requirement to be able to call up this sound when working on a remix. I didn't own either synth, and to date I had been getting my bass sounds from other synthesizers (Juno 60, OB8, and others). But when Lately Bass was all the rage, and it came to playing a bass line on a Madonna remix, it didn't matter how many thousands of dollars of gear I had in my rig. The producer wanted Lately Bass! It was slightly embarrassing when he had his assistant dig out a DX27 from the studio store room and hook it up to my rig to give him the sound he wanted.

 

Was the producer cheating? No. He was doing his job as producer, providing the remix with a recognizable and highly successful sound for the bass line. In any event, the importance of being original hasn't been kicked down a notch when it comes to creativity as a result of Lately Bass or any other popular synth preset. But sometimes it is necessary to follow trends in music production, and most successful trends seem to include similarity of style, or a prerequisite that certain types of sounds -- or even presets -- be used.

 

Final thoughts... In the big scheme of things, no two people will play any preset sound the same way, and so the melody, bass line, chords, even the choice of key of whatever you're playing is what's going to distinguish what you do from other people using those same sounds. So unless you're blatantly ripping off another artist's lines, and in the same key that they used, what's going to make your music speak is more about the originality of your music and not so much the presets you're using.

Good point. But I give a counter-argument where I think presets have given a whole domain of music production tools a bad reputation: guitar amp simulation.

 

People take home a Pod, or GP, or some other similar tool, plug it into their amps, play the sounds, consider the guitar emulations flat and re-sell it on eBay after also posting a nasty remark on harmony central or some similar forum about how guitar amp solutions stink and that tube amps rule.

 

To understand a little bit what's going on, the presets are designed with a possible lowest common denomination concerning playback, most likely for playing back in studio or via headphones. When the amp is put into the chain, it has its own characteristics where for example adding more cab amp simulations might flatten the whole sound. There's a need to EQ and otherwise adjust the whole replication chain so the amp simulation could be heard to its fullest. Including adjusting the original presets.

 

Those who have taken time to really understand how guitar amp simulations work have been able to nurture really good sounds. If nothing else, go to any Adrian Belew concert (Power trio or similar environment.) He was using an old Johnson amp simulation combo for a long time (that was the precursor to the Line 6 amp simulation systems.)

 

Just relying on the presets might have provided a wrong impressions. Sometimes I think this also applies to synthesizers, there's an assumption this is all the synth could provide. SW Plug-in manufacturers love this as it gives them an opportunity to sell even more software synths where the original ones might have plenty of usage -- if just taken time to learn how they work.

Good point.

 

Thanks. But understand that I can make those points because I've lived the life of a programmer where the notion of 'cheating by using my presets' never entered the equation for myself nor any of the other members of the programming team. And if a programmer would never think you're 'cheating' by using his/her preset, where else should this notion of 'cheating' manifest itself from?

 

With no disrespect to the OP, in many respects, the notion of 'cheating' by using presets is a bit sophomoric, silly. Still, I understand how this notion of cheating can become a worry. But as I implied, it really shouldn't be.

 

...posting a nasty remark(s) on harmony central...

 

As if there's ever any meaningful conversation there.

 

 

Sometimes I think this also applies to synthesizers, there's an assumption this is all the synth could provide.

 

Not sure how someone making a bad assumption relates to whether or not using presets is "cheating". Again, who exactly are you cheating? Yourself? Or maybe someone else who's used that sound? And even if someone (other than yourself) thought you were somehow cheating, really, who gives a rats ass about what they think?

 

There is so much to learn from presets in modern instruments and channel strips that I feel I would be cheating myself to not learn and be inspired by them. There it is, someone's fresh approach or perspective on something I didn't think of. What an easy way to wipe cobwebs and uninspired presuppositions from my workflow. Ya ya ya.

 

Quality workmanship challenges me to step up and create something. There is a lot of gooooood stuff available to us in today's world. Why not have fun with it?

There is nothing thats 100% original, everything has stemmed from another influential source,

 

in a nutshell, everyone copies from someone, bowie, the stones, you name it..look it up.

 

nothing wrong, nothing right. it is, what it is 8)

Yeah, that's an oldy moldy one. It is true that artists (of any kind) cannot help but be artistically influenced by other artist's work. But if there weren't any such thing as originality then any attempt to "copy" another artist would result in nothing but a recreation of what that artist does. Right? Note for note? Emotion for emotion? But it's pretty über-obvious that it just doesn't work that way. Even a mistake in trying to reproduce someone else's style/vibe/whatever can result in a new, original sound.

 

What it is, is it.

Language isn't original,but what you say with it can be.

Fnirpldy squingleplot demonstrandum.

And even if someone (other than yourself) thought you were somehow cheating, really, who gives a rats ass about what they think?

 

Could not agree more.

Hi Maverick,

Music making, production, scientific inquiry, instrument making, writing, recording, event performances... all of these have been a team sport, for a very long time. Nobody does this in isolation. The exchange of ideas, techniques, and tunes is essential. It's the basis of further inquiry and progress. It isn't cheating to use what works well.

Damn, I was confused for a minute here.

 

I thought the thread title was IS IT CHEATING TO USE PRESENTS.

 

And I thought, shite, I've been using that toaster I got from my 2nd marriage all these years, but maybe it IS cheating and I should be feeling some shame.

 

I'm relieved to realize you are talking about PreSETS.

 

On THAT topic: my accordion has presets on it. They are clunky old mechanical switches that move physical bits about inside the squeezebox, but they are presets never the less. I use them, without guilt, relentlessly.

I use [presets], without guilt, relentlessly.

 

Philistine!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Um, I mean, um...

I use [presets], without guilt, relentlessly.

 

Philistine!

Psst? SkiMan?

I've got the number of a good therapist. He can get you over this "issue" you are harbouring deep in your creative soul. You CAN heal this most grievous attitude. Truly, you can.

Edited April 11, 2010 by ReinMan