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depthofallthings
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10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:44 pm

Hello,

I upgraded to 10.7 recently, and today I noticed a huge bug with automation. Apple was able to replicate the issue and after a few hours determined that everyone on their team has the same bug (even users with Monterey). Now my case is with the engineering team.

Here's the issue. If you have any gradual automation change set over 50 seconds, it will drop out down to the lowest or highest value if it's a gradual increase or decrease. You can test this out by creating any new track and setting a volume automation of -inf at the beginning of your project, then 0 dB about 4 minutes in. Scrub your playhead from start to finish but watch the automation value readout on the left panel. You'll see it dropping out incrementally. Some is more noticeable than others, depending on how drastic the change in value is. Please note that this affects ANY type of automation. Bear this in mind if your projects have been sounding a little strange lately or if you're hearing things change quickly where it shouldn't.

Here is a gif video:

automation-ramp-bug.gif
automation-ramp-bug.gif (15.42 MiB) Viewed 4075 times


If you are also experiencing this problem, I recommend reporting to Apple so they are able to gauge the impact. I can see this being a big issue for a lot of us being how common and simple this type of editing is. Please let me know if you find any good workarounds other than rolling back the Time Machine. Thank you!

EDIT: I have found a slight workaround, still not great. The issue seems to happen between two single points of automation set over 50 seconds. You will have to place automation waypoints along the slope within 50 seconds and it will not drop out. Unfortunately, it will drop your automation to the lowest point, so you'll have to eyeball where it needs to go back up to. There seems to be yet another bug. If you click on the middle between two points, it doesn't just simply add a point.

Best regards,

Mickey
Mickey Wilson
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David Nahmani
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:42 am

Thanks Mickey for your detailed bug report. We were just discussing this issue in a recent thread here: Automation ??
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depthofallthings
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:09 am

Thanks David, unfortunately if I add automation points in my slope, it will not add the point directly to it. It will force the new point all the way to -inf and I have to bring it back up and eyeball it, won't be 100% linear where it left off (another bug). I was able to add a slight curve and that worked as well, I suppose having it more rough either with curve or extra points will be the only solution.

Any other ideas?
Mickey Wilson
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:25 am

What if you use the key command "Create 1 Track Automation Point for Visible Parameter"?
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depthofallthings
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:09 pm

Just gave that a try, still sends it all the way to the bottom :(
Mickey Wilson
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:34 pm

depthofallthings wrote:
Just gave that a try, still sends it all the way to the bottom :(

Ugh... not sure why. I cannot reproduce this here. :(
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Dynamic_Notes
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:06 pm

Clicking the automation past around 50 seconds sends it at or near 0dB verified here. Also noticed a pattern of dropouts every 17 bars except 18 bars for the first section. (Perhaps because the first node was at 1111)

To test -
I used a new untitled song.
Set the tempo at 80bpm
Put in an apple loop or two to see if the sound reflected the automation.
Put in volume starting from 0dB going to +6dB over around 4minutes
As shown in the markers, the drop outs and restarts seemed to show a pattern of every 17 bars.
Also clicking the automation sends it to or almost to 0dB.

Automation issue.gif
Automation issue.gif (10.27 MiB) Viewed 3200 times
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Thu Nov 04, 2021 6:45 pm

Confirmed. This is a bug.
This happen exactly at 18.1.4.58. (project tempo at 120.0000).
The above mentioned solutions/workarounds don't work.
Deleting that point doesn't help either as it reappears automatically by itself.

I filled a bug report on Logic Pro Feedback website.
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)

Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:40 pm

I find that it’s less prone to occur when the starting and ending point aren’t set to extreme (min/max) values…
LogicPro 10.7.2, MainStage 3.5.4
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David Nahmani
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix)  Topic is solved

Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:39 pm

depthofallthings wrote:
Hello,

I upgraded to 10.7 recently, and today I noticed a huge bug with automation. Apple was able to replicate the issue and after a few hours determined that everyone on their team has the same bug (even users with Monterey). Now my case is with the engineering team.

Here's the issue. If you have any gradual automation change set over 50 seconds, it will drop out down to the lowest or highest value if it's a gradual increase or decrease. You can test this out by creating any new track and setting a volume automation of -inf at the beginning of your project, then 0 dB about 4 minutes in. Scrub your playhead from start to finish but watch the automation value readout on the left panel. You'll see it dropping out incrementally. Some is more noticeable than others, depending on how drastic the change in value is. Please note that this affects ANY type of automation. Bear this in mind if your projects have been sounding a little strange lately or if you're hearing things change quickly where it shouldn't.

Here is a gif video:

automation-ramp-bug.gif

If you are also experiencing this problem, I recommend reporting to Apple so they are able to gauge the impact. I can see this being a big issue for a lot of us being how common and simple this type of editing is. Please let me know if you find any good workarounds other than rolling back the Time Machine. Thank you!

EDIT: I have found a slight workaround, still not great. The issue seems to happen between two single points of automation set over 50 seconds. You will have to place automation waypoints along the slope within 50 seconds and it will not drop out. Unfortunately, it will drop your automation to the lowest point, so you'll have to eyeball where it needs to go back up to. There seems to be yet another bug. If you click on the middle between two points, it doesn't just simply add a point.

Best regards,

Mickey


This bug was fixed in Logic Pro 10.7.1:

Volume no longer prematurely drops to -∞ within very long volume automation curves.

See: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203718
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:00 pm

I have 10.7.1 and I am still experiencing this automation problem....
 
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:32 pm

tiedieshred wrote:
I have 10.7.1 and I am still experiencing this automation problem....

Ugh... Sorry to hear! :( Can you attach an example of a simple project that does that? How to attach files to your post
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:20 pm

David Nahmani wrote:
tiedieshred wrote:
I have 10.7.1 and I am still experiencing this automation problem....

Ugh... Sorry to hear! :( Can you attach an example of a simple project that does that? How to attach files to your post



I opened a new project and I was able to use automation no problem. It is in an older logic project (November 3 2021) that I am experiencing the automation issue. It is not a simple project but I can maybe take a video of it not functioning or something. Using touch to control the volume automation doesn't work either. I am not tech savvy FYI but I do own your Logic 10.5 manual!
 
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:23 pm

tiedieshred wrote:
I opened a new project and I was able to use automation no problem. It is in an older logic project (November 3 2021) that I am experiencing the automation issue. It is not a simple project but I can maybe take a video of it not functioning or something. Using touch to control the volume automation doesn't work either. I am not tech savvy FYI but I do own your Logic 10.5 manual!

Great! Always good to hear. :D

Maybe it's because the automation was created in a buggy version of Logic. I wonder, what happens if you just redraw the automation now? Like remove one point and recreate it.

If you want to attach a project, you can save it as a copy, and in the copy, delete all tracks and regions but the one necessary to showcase the issue.
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:59 am

David Nahmani wrote:
tiedieshred wrote:
I opened a new project and I was able to use automation no problem. It is in an older logic project (November 3 2021) that I am experiencing the automation issue. It is not a simple project but I can maybe take a video of it not functioning or something. Using touch to control the volume automation doesn't work either. I am not tech savvy FYI but I do own your Logic 10.5 manual!

Great! Always good to hear. :D

Maybe it's because the automation was created in a buggy version of Logic. I wonder, what happens if you just redraw the automation now? Like remove one point and recreate it.

If you want to attach a project, you can save it as a copy, and in the copy, delete all tracks and regions but the one necessary to showcase the issue.


Yeah it's a great book \m/

I tried redrawing the automation manually but the track still didn't respond, or rather it went straight to -infinity DB. I am in the project right now and will try messing around some more. Excellent idea about the copy; if I can't resolve it I will do just that!

Thank you David!
 
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:07 pm

You're welcome! :)
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:13 pm

David Nahmani wrote:
You're welcome! :)



Hi David,

Attached is the Logic file I'm having the automation issue with. Let me know if the attachment doesn't work!

Thanks again,
Derek
Attachments
Automation Issue w Cellos .zip
I hope this works
(3.37 MiB) Downloaded 7 times
 
polanoid
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:18 am

If I may chime in here: There's conflicting Track and Region automation in the example project. A track automation node at the project start wants to set the volume to -1.3 dB, whilst a region automation node at the same position wants to set it to 0.0 dB. This is asking for trouble, even if "Region Automation takes priority over track automation" is switched on (as the automation nodes are at the same position). You definitely should delete one of those nodes, otherwise chasing won't work correctly (starting playback at 1 1 1 1 will set Volume to -1.3 dB, starting from a later position will set it to 0 dB).

Apart from that the example project's automation plays back just fine here (10.7.2 on Monterey)
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Re: 10.7 Automation Bug (Apple Currently Working on Fix) [FIXED in 10.7.1]

Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:02 pm

polanoid wrote:
If I may chime in here: There's conflicting Track and Region automation in the example project. A track automation node at the project start wants to set the volume to -1.3 dB, whilst a region automation node at the same position wants to set it to 0.0 dB. This is asking for trouble, even if "Region Automation takes priority over track automation" is switched on (as the automation nodes are at the same position). You definitely should delete one of those nodes, otherwise chasing won't work correctly (starting playback at 1 1 1 1 will set Volume to -1.3 dB, starting from a later position will set it to 0 dB).

Apart from that the example project's automation plays back just fine here (10.7.2 on Monterey)



Yes, you are absolutely correct! I finally figured that out and deleted the conflicting automation. I've no automation problems now and won't make that mistake again :)

I do have another more annoying issue though. Logic is automatically freezing tracks as soon as I open a project...but that's for another thread.

Thanks!