Recording live region automation?

I'm trying to record Expression (MIDI CC #11) using Logic's automation record feature (tried both Touch and Latch), but no joy. 

 

- My track is record armed

- The automation selector in my track header is set to "Region"

- I can hear the changes as I move my MIDI controller's slider

- If I do a straight record (if I press Logic's record button), expression gets recorded, but of course I want to record my expression after I've recorded my part, not simultaneously

 

This should work right?

AFAIK, to record realtime (live) MIDI, being MIDI notes or MIDI controllers, you have to use the regular recording (button) approach. Which differs from the other automation type.

Using the appropriate overlap recording setting would allow you to proceed the way you wish.

Hmmm. This screen-grab makes it look like track automation and region automation should be recordable the same way, right? 

 

There are different ways to access/edit the recorded automation (being either MIDI or Fader automation type).

I assume that you intend to record your CC#11 (Expression) via an external (hardware) MIDI controller (live), in which case I maintain what I stated.

Automation in Logic could be either MIDI CC or Fader. Fader automation is Logic's proprietary automation offering extended possibilities over regular MIDI CC type.

Automation could be recorded either in a (MIDI, Audio or Drummer) region, and/or on a track. When recorded on the track, you could access them via its automation lanes.

You could move track's recorded automation to region and vice versa.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Atlas007

Are you recording in expressions cc#11...?. you can merge your recordings or record the expression on another track.

CC data is recorded directly ( as Atlas indicated).... Use Midi Draw to modify

 

Thanks for the workaround suggestions, guys.

 

Bizzarrely, it does look like what Logic's user interface suggests is possible and would be awsomely convenient (recording CC automation just like one would channel automation) is not possible. As has been pointed out, there are ways to record CC, but none is as convenient as the channel strip automation workflow.

 

So the answer is no. It does not just work.

Of course it does - I just demonstrated it. Look at the event list in the animation - it is cc#11 expression - just like fader automation.

 

I even used the mod wheel to create the expression or you could have automated the expression live - the only difference is cc data is automated as midi events where automation data is fader events.

If I do a straight record (if I press Logic's record button), expression gets recorded, but of course I want to record my expression after I've recorded my part, not simultaneously

 

This should work right?

Right, just as you can see on volovicg's screenshot. Just record the automation on top of the part you've already recorded. Make sure you select Record > Overlapping MIDI Recordings > Merge. 

And BTW - you hear the effect of the expression on the audio you previously recorded as you vary the expression - as you record the 2nd pass.

Guys, yes, it is possible to record MIDI CC messages. But that's not what I'm asking for. I think I might have been unclear on that.

 

I am asking for a particular way to record CC: record arm the track, enable automation on the track, flip from Read to Touch or Latch, start playback, and manipulate my hardware controller's slider. Done. 

 

Using a Record+Merge technique means that if I don't like what I did on pass A, I have to erase it before I attempt a pass B, otherwise my pass A and pass B get merged together. That's the whole reason Touch and Latch modes for automation recording exist, and it would have been an obvious thing to treat MIDI CC the same way.

 

Oh well. First world problems. 

I am asking for a particular way to record CC: record arm the track, enable automation on the track, flip from Read to Touch or Latch, start playback, and manipulate my hardware controller's slider. Done. 

I see. I guess what threw me off was your mentioning to record-arm the track: record-arming a track is for recording events onto that track, such as audio data, MIDI notes, or MIDI CC. You do not record-arm a track to record track automation on it. 

Aha, yes. My bad. The Automation record modes are indeed independent of record. Sorry about that.

Hey dude,

 

I was having the same issue. I am also using the spitfire stuff. You described EXACTLY what my issue was and was hoping somebody here had an answer for me. I found only a half answer. But I was able to figure the rest out. I didn't have an account on this site, so I created one just to help you out cuz I know how frustrating it can be.

 

I was under the impression that if you use the "Learn Assignment" function that you would be able to write the automation data on the region like you are with the mod wheel. I was wrong. All this does is tell Kontact you're no longer going to be using the "default" CC# for that parameter and you're going to be using a different one (whichever # your keyboard's fader is set to).

 

What I had to do was delete all of the "Learned" assignments first. Then I figured out that if you right click on the parameter you want to control in the Kontact GUI, for example "Expression," it tells you what that parameter's default CC# is. In the case of Expression, it is CC#11. If you right click on vibrato, it says CC#21. So what you have to do is assign your keyboard's fader to those CC#'s. On my keyboard which is a Roland Juno-DS (which also has onboard sounds) I was able to do that on the keyboard itself via the onboard menu screen. I imagine that on a purely midi controller type keyboard this would not be possible. But there may be a way to assign the midi controller's faders to a specific CC# through logic.

 

That's the part you'll have to figure out on your own.

 

In short. We were using the keyboard's default CC# to tell kontact to control a parameter. But what we needed to do was use Kontact's default parameter CC# and assign the keyboard's fader to that number. Once you do that, you can record the automation information in the region without changing automation modes. Voila!

The crucial part of my question was how to record “automation” (in this case CC info) independently of the notes. Apparently, track parameters like volume, pan, etc are special cased, and treating CC like track automation is not possible.

I would suggest you create a "new track with same instrument" to record the cc to. If you set up the recording options to create take folder, you can record several passes of cc and then select the best take, something you can't do with "regular" automation...

Does this setting help?

Yep, the new track with same instruments is a workaround. Edited March 26, 2021 by minilq

You do have to be careful to create a track per CC or you risk erasing previously recorded data on other CCs Edited March 26, 2021 by minilq

You're not erasing anything if you use take folders ?