Logic 7.2 successfully running on Leopard

[EdgarRothermich]

Out of curiosity, I started Logic on the latest OSX Leopard version. Guess what, I works. Of course I didn’t run a full production just poked around, load audio, plug-ins, etc. Not bad. On the other hand, Soundtrack Pro on the other hand - no such luck.

 

So tell me, what is all that talk that Logic is delayed because it requires features of Leopard. Does that really make any sense?

 

1) Why do we need a rewritten Logic version when the current one already runs on Leopard

 

2) “The new Logic requires Leopard features”.

Did anybody look at the features of Leopard to find any groundbreaking stuff that requires a complete Logic re-write to take advantage of. All the “secret” features are out of the bag and there is nothing earth shattering in there. I played with Leopard the last few days and besides its 64-bit capabilities, I don’t see anything that can be addressed in a Logic 7.3 version.

 

3) Audio in Leopard.

Although Leopard has a lot of nice features and improvements, the big question is not what new stuff is in there, but what stuff is NOT in there. And the biggest disappointment is the audio department. The Sound page in the System Preferences and the Audio MIDI Setup utility is virtually the same. Audio got a big improvements from Jaguar to Tiger but now, it is almost frightening how the whole audio section seems to be untouched. Last time I checked, audio played a big role in Logic, so tying the new Logic release with the new Leopard release - I don’t see it. Considering that confusing mess the way audio is laid out between the Sound System Preference and the Audio MIDI Setup utility, I had hoped for a rework of the the whole audio interface in Leopard. Did you ever had listened to iTunes on the main speaker then switch to a Skype session and want to adjust the input/output of your headset. I seems that Vista has a much better approach when dealing with audio of individual apps.

 

4) Soundtrack Pro - a peak into Logic’s future

I really hope not. First of all the, new version crashes on my system every constantly and is pretty much useless. If Logic uses similar code, then we might be in for a bumpy ride. Just head over to the Soundtrack forum. Again why does Logic has to wait for Leopard while the whole FInal Cut Studio suite is already released under Tiger.

 

5) Think as Software Engineer not as an Audio Engineer

One disturbing trend I see in Soundtrack and Garageband is the subtle change in the user interface. The interface for an Audio Engineer is the mixing desk with the typical layout of a channel strip. It seems that Apple doesn’t want to overwhelm the hobby musician (Garageband) or Video Editor (Soundrack) with the channel strip interface and instead you have little windows with popup menus where you select plugins, or sends. We are one step away that this thinking spills over into Logic and then we are doomed.

 

 

 

So what’s the holdup? I have no idea and so does everybody else not involved in Logic’s development. Here are my two cents:

 

1) A complete rewrite and cleanup of ancient code in Logic with a resulting long beta testing period

2) 64 bit

3) ProTools killer. Apple wants to sell hardware and by pursuing that killer host based audio system with the alliance of Apogee, it could really put a dent into the de-facto standard called ProTools. But this only works if they get the software right. I like the complexity of Logic but I can see that it could be too overwhelming for the average recording studio.

 

 

What does it all mean? Wait - wait - wait.

I didn’t see too much discussion about the implication of a new Logic version onthird party plug-ins. Let’s face it. Even Spectrasonics doesn’t have Atmosphere and Trilogy available for Intel Macs, and how long ago did we switch to Intel?. What will be the requirements for the plug-ins if a new Logic version comes out and how long do we have to wait until all our toys play nicely together?

 

Welcome to Logic - the never ending story.

[Subtonic]

To play devil's advocate, it's a long time between now and October.

 

I wonder if they hold up the progress of Logic because of Garageband. Surely the next version of iLife will rely heavily on Core Animation for some cool stuff - so iLife would need to wait for the arrival of Leopard. And since Logic and Garageband are built from the same foundation, releasing a new version of Logic could reveal what to expect in the next Garageband.

 

And, given Apple's policy of surprising consumers at Macworld, that's not something they really want to do. Cynical, but it's no surprise that there's always been a Logic update shortly after a new GB is released.

 

But yes, I don't see how Leopard is essential to the next version of Logic. If Leopard was so important to the pro apps, then why didn't Final Cut Studio get held up because of it?

 

Then again, I don't work for Apple.

[seclusion]

I hear ya, I'm just glad we don't have to wait for new driver from our audio interfaces. I'm running Logic Pro on the newest Leopard beta as well. No issues, I just migrated all my apps etc. Most of the 3rd party plugs needed the installers run again, no biggy. But it runs the same as it did on Tiger on my Mac Pro.

I wonder how much ram I can access? I only have 1 gig still in this thing, wonder if Logic has to be updated to use more ram. Seems reliable, and some of the improvements in Leopard are nice.

I notice in spaces that if I have some plugins open, they disappear once spaces is open, I only see the arrange. I was hoping to have one space, or 2 with all the plugs open and another space with the arrangement!

Maybe the Logic update will allow this.

Later

[fromage]

hi, new to the forums here, but not new to logic at all-

 

So did i miss something? where is this press release everyone seems to think exists that says that Logic has not come out because it requires Leopard? I have doubted this rumor from the second I heard it.. it just is not Apple's style, plain and simple. They have never forced anyone to upgrade anything.. in fact they pride themselves on backwards compatibility, do they not?

 

Why do we need a rewritten Logic version when the current one already runs on Leopard

 

uhhhhh cause there is code in logic from like 1.0 or something? that was what, 1992 or something? when 7 was looming were you asking yourself "why do we need a version 7 when version 6 runs perfect on OS 9 and OS X?"

 

"Did anybody look at the features of Leopard to find any groundbreaking stuff that requires a complete Logic re-write to take advantage of. "

 

the features that they show on the apple page are features for the end-user, not programmers. Of course logic isn't delayed because they need to take use of the transparent menu bar or advanced spotlight searches... I would assume if that's even true it has more to do with the new cocoa API found in leopard.. something you aren't going to notice if you just downloaded a torrent of leopard or did not attend WWDC as a developer....

 

3) Audio in Leopard.

 

I completely agree with your sentiments about the audio in leopard.. I haven't messed around with it, but I really hope that by its release they have a beefed up audio engine. I mean right now it is very stable.. not to mention windows still does not have anything like aggregate devices or its own internal midi bus.. but something like that you are saying, about individual control over an app's audio settings, would be nice. Please be aware of the fact that you are not using a final version of Leopard, and that the latest version of Audio MIDI setup might not even be bundled with it. We have no idea.

 

4) Soundtrack Pro - a peak into Logic’s future

I really hope not. First of all the, new version crashes on my system every constantly and is pretty much useless.

 

It is completely stable for me. *shrug*. Soundtrack pro and logic do not use the same audio engine anyway from what I've heard some people say on here, or any of the same anything basically, other than some plugins, which don't really indicate anything really. I am reluctant to draw any conclusions about logic based on stp 2.0, other than I really hope that some of those plugins are going to be in logic 8,

 

Again why does Logic has to wait for Leopard while the whole FInal Cut Studio suite is already released under Tiger.

 

Again where is your basis for this argument?

 

It seems that Apple doesn’t want to overwhelm the hobby musician (Garageband) or Video Editor (Soundrack) with the channel strip interface and instead you have little windows with popup menus where you select plugins, or sends. We are one step away that this thinking spills over into Logic and then we are doomed.

 

I highly doubt they are making garageband pro. Logic is for the pro musician and they are not going to turn it into some piece of crap. I have faith!

 

Even Spectrasonics doesn’t have Atmosphere and Trilogy available for Intel Macs, and how long ago did we switch to Intel

 

Sounds like a question for spectrasonics. There were intel updates for PLENTY of AUs even before the transition was made. It's not Apple's fault they can't figure it out.

[EdgarRothermich]

the features that they show on the apple page are features for the end-user, not programmers. Of course logic isn't delayed because they need to take use of the transparent menu bar or advanced spotlight searches... I would assume if that's even true it has more to do with the new cocoa API found in leopard.. something you aren't going to notice if you just downloaded a torrent of leopard or did not attend WWDC as a developer....

I know, but I still doubt that any API would hold up a long overdue Logic or make it so revolutionary new that it is worth the delay.

 

Please be aware of the fact that you are not using a final version of Leopard, and that the latest version of Audio MIDI setup might not even be bundled with it. We have no idea.

I'm fully aware of that. But first of all, I don't think Audio is such a big deal in the overall picture of Leopard that they would withhold it for the current beta release. And second, there is not much time before they have to wrap up the thing for an October release. Whatever is not in there right now has still to be tested by the developers.

 

It is completely stable for me. *shrug*.

That is good to hear. Maybe it is a configuration issue on my system.

 

Quote:

Again why does Logic has to wait for Leopard while the whole FInal Cut Studio suite is already released under Tiger.

 

Again where is your basis for this argument?

 

I'm just questioning the arguments that the new Logic is tied to Leopard. All I'm saying is that FCP is much more important for Apple and they did not wait for Leopard to beef up the FCP suite with some transparent eye candy.

 

Quote:

Even Spectrasonics doesn’t have Atmosphere and Trilogy available for Intel Macs, and how long ago did we switch to Intel

 

 

Sounds like a question for spectrasonics. There were intel updates for PLENTY of AUs even before the transition was made. It's not Apple's fault they can't figure it out.

Of course it is Spectrasonics fault. The question I'm raising is that most of the discussion is about the release date of Logic where the actual question is, how much longer does it take for third party plugins to catch up and be compatible with whatever revolutionary technology is build into the new Logic.

The last couple of years were a continuous upgrade procedure.

OS9 to OSX, PPC to Intel and now 32bit to 64bit. All the different components that influence the upgrade decision were completely out of sync. Hardware, software, third party software. Spectrasonics is one bad example. 

 

Another problem is shown by the behavior of Native Instruments. It took them also quite a while to complete their upgrades. Unfortunately a few of their (popular) products like FM7 are biting the PPC dust and will not see the light of Universal Binaries. Of course they offer FM8, BUT all your Logic songs that use FM7 plugins will not open in Logic running on your new IntelMac. This is a real harsh decision on the side of NI. No backward compatibility whatsoever. I have to open old songs regularly (couple of years back) and this makes it really difficult, like having legacy machines around for import, comparison, export, etc.

 

Again, the big question is not, when does the new Logic arrive. The question is, when do we finally see the end of the tunnel of major transitions and so all the components in our music productions environment can settle down and we can focus again on making music.

- what a dream -