Emagic Instrument Overhaul

[Nogan]

With the mildy recent GUI update to a lot of the effects plugins, I've been excited to see what apple has to offer in upcoming updates. One thing that has killed me since the first time I used Logic is how dated all of the instruments from the Emagic days look.

 

These synths either need a graphic makeover or to be tossed into the Legacy plugin pile, because honestly aside from the fact that most of them aren't super resource intensive, pretty much all of them can be replaced with Alchemy, Retro Synth, or the Drum Designers.

 

The exceptions to that statement would be EXS24 and EVOC 20, which means that they should REALLY have priority on a hopeful instrument GUI update.

 

NONETHELESS THIS WOULD BE...

REALLY COOL

[David Nahmani]

pretty much all of them can be replaced with Alchemy, Retro Synth, or the Drum Designers.

I definitely don't agree with that statement. Each synth has its own sound, its own way of laying out controls, modulations.... I still like the ESM, ESE, ESP, ES1, ES2, DKD is nothing but a front for EXS24, DMD is a front for Ultrabeat, Sculpture is still completely unique, EVOC can be useful sometimes...

[angelonyc]

I think they need a whole update, not just the GUI... There are just so many great 3rd party plug-ins that run circles around Apples built in.. Exs always had the possibility of EOF errors.. Without a crapload of effects put on, they are pretty bland. And those effects just screw up the phase of a mix as a whole.

[Nogan]

pretty much all of them can be replaced with Alchemy, Retro Synth, or the Drum Designers.

I definitely don't agree with that statement. Each synth has its own sound, its own way of laying out controls, modulations.... I still like the ESM, ESE, ESP, ES1, ES2, DKD is nothing but a front for EXS24, DMD is a front for Ultrabeat, Sculpture is still completely unique, EVOC can be useful sometimes...

 

Hmm. I definitely can say I agree with you on Sculpture, I had forgotten sculpture's existence at the time of writing.

 

As for the DMD and DKD being skins of Ultrabeat and EXS24 respectively -- I understand that, but they cross over a huge chunk of functionality and purpose with (which is completely my opinion) a much cleaner and intuitive GUI that follows a more modern workflow. To me the goal in usage of Drum Kit Designer is very far from that of EXS24, so to mention the apparency of skinning is completely true, but it serves such a different standard function on its own, which is why it was designed the way it was and why I left leniency in my statement. I do agree with you a little for DMD and Ultrabeat, due to the extra sound processing and patterns that DMD does not offer, but I still take a similar approach to that of EXS and DKD. They are two different beasts and DMD has a much cleaner approach to the foreground function of Ultra that makes it (at least for me) often a lot easier to pick because of so, and ultimately will relieve a different purpose.

 

It is to my blame that I didn't clarify well enough that I didn't want EXS24, Ultrabeat, EVOC, or Sculpture removed, but to be purely redesigned with a feel that better represents the direction that most newly developed plug-ins and actively developed (even popular) third-party ones have been taking recently (what I had hoped to imply with the priority statement).

 

Either way, I still stand by the statement that pretty much all of the Emagic synths can be replaced with Alchemy or Retro Synth (Aside from I guess EFM1 for its harmonic modulation setup and ES2 almost strictly for its wavetables.) on the basis of "Do-ability". There is virtually nothing in any of the old synths that can not be almost entirely replicated strictly through the ability of these synths. The closest arguement you could come up with to each synth "having its own sound" would boil down to the possibly different implementations of fourier series' used to generate the waveforms used in oscillators, or routing. Routing is something that is exceptionally easy to reproduce with Alchemy's system of linking, and as far as waveforms go -- each synth sounds and looks (on the oscilloscope) startlingly alike.

 

Oscilloscope Saw Results: http://i.imgur.com/oF6nWXn.jpg

Here the most noticeably different saw is ES M, where a distortion-like signal forms a symmetrical bias (which is very easy to recreate might I add). Alchemy comes in second, due to the fact that the waveform has a less prominent asymmetrical bump, but once again such a knob is found right in the VA section of the waveform, making such a desired change in shape no difficulty.

 

As for routings, the only thing in the emagic synths that is really exceptional is ES2's vector feature, which can easily be replaced with MSEG envelopes, LFOs, and Envelopes in Alchemy.

 

Nonetheless, if that difference really means the world to you after all of the filtering, envelopes, and processing that may affect the synth, go ahead and advocate otherwise. That's not what I'm here to say.

 

 

 

My purpose of writing this post was to express my dissatisfaction with the current manifestation of the workflow that each of these synths present with both the "layout" of the controls and the actual appearance of the GUI. Since apple has recently worked against the looks of old tradition in the updating of many plug-in effect interfaces and in the wholly new appearance Logic X in comparison to Logic 9, I expressed my hopes in apple's targeting of the synths from the Emagic days next for continuing this pattern. That is why I did not expand my statement further than I did.

 

I apologize for maybe coming off as in prick in my largely detailed retaliation, I just wanted to clarify my opinion in a broader sense that was not so visible before in my post. Thank you for the read.

[Nogan]

I think they need a whole update, not just the GUI... There are just so many great 3rd party plug-ins that run circles around Apples built in.. Exs always had the possibility of EOF errors.. Without a crapload of effects put on, they are pretty bland. And those effects just screw up the phase of a mix as a whole.

 

I agree with this statement a lot.

 

For me though It'd be a huge landmark to see them first update the looks to something more modern, but if they'd continue to regularly update these synths in functionality as well I'd be very much impressed.

[sambosun]

pretty much all of them can be replaced with Alchemy, Retro Synth, or the Drum Designers.

I definitely don't agree with that statement. Each synth has its own sound, its own way of laying out controls, modulations.... I still like the ESM, ESE, ESP, ES1, ES2, DKD is nothing but a front for EXS24, DMD is a front for Ultrabeat, Sculpture is still completely unique, EVOC can be useful sometimes...

 

I totally agree with you here David.

 

Although its nice to work with samples in alchemy I think a 2016 EXS update would be appreciated as well as all the other synths.

I mean I don't mind using the dedicated sample mapping window for EXS.

[Darude]

+1 I'd like all the older Logic plugs updated.

 

There is virtually nothing in any of the old synths that can not be almost entirely replicated strictly through the ability of these synths. The closest arguement you could come up with to each synth "having its own sound" would boil down to the possibly different implementations of fourier series' used to generate the waveforms used in oscillators, or routing. Routing is something that is exceptionally easy to reproduce with Alchemy's system of linking, and as far as waveforms go -- each synth sounds and looks (on the oscilloscope) startlingly alike.

You could say the same about any and every analog emulation synth with some routing and modulation possibilities, right? Why do we have more synths coming out all the time? Or iPhones? Or cars? Brand new revolutionary shovels? The next iteration of a same thing rarely is anything we desperately need, but something we often seem to want "just because". That doesn't mean that everything we've used before becomes unusable, it's still there and nice to have as a trusted go-to. There's a 'feel', whether it's the tiiiiiiny difference in sound you (think you) hear or there's the green colour of ES1 you like that trumps everything, you just like it better, period. It's not about it being possible to create something almost or dead-on like it.

[Nogan]

+1 I'd like all the older Logic plugs updated.

 

There is virtually nothing in any of the old synths that can not be almost entirely replicated strictly through the ability of these synths. The closest arguement you could come up with to each synth "having its own sound" would boil down to the possibly different implementations of fourier series' used to generate the waveforms used in oscillators, or routing. Routing is something that is exceptionally easy to reproduce with Alchemy's system of linking, and as far as waveforms go -- each synth sounds and looks (on the oscilloscope) startlingly alike.

You could say the same about any and every analog emulation synth with some routing and modulation possibilities, right? Why do we have more synths coming out all the time? Or iPhones? Or cars? Brand new revolutionary shovels? The next iteration of a same thing rarely is anything we desperately need, but something we often seem to want "just because". That doesn't mean that everything we've used before becomes unusable, it's still there and nice to have as a trusted go-to. There's a 'feel', whether it's the tiiiiiiny difference in sound you (think you) hear or there's the green colour of ES1 you like that trumps everything, you just like it better, period. It's not about it being possible to create something almost or dead-on like it.

 

 

Ok. Well said! I guess I really just want some updating to them.

 

Maybe they could implement some updates that offer a more modern take on the old emagic plugins while still allowing one to access them either directly or right under the option legacy menu.

[Darude]

I don't know how much of a pain coding a legacy option is, but like Waves Element now has version 1/2 in the same plug, ie. you upgrade to 2, which has upgraded sounds and some tweaked features, you still can have the 1 sound with a flip of a switch.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE new and shiny Logic synths, like ES1 & ES2 mk2 and especially EXS24 mk3, and to me it wouldn't matter if they'd be in the same "old" synth, just updated features and option for legacy version, or if there'd just be ES1 and ES2 mk2 separately for eg (though I'm not sure there's a point to create ES1 mk2 per se)

[Nogan]

I don't know how much of a pain coding a legacy option is, but like Waves Element now has version 1/2 in the same plug, ie. you upgrade to 2, which has upgraded sounds and some tweaked features, you still can have the 1 sound with a flip of a switch.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE new and shiny Logic synths, like ES1 & ES2 mk2 and especially EXS24 mk3, and to me it wouldn't matter if they'd be in the same "old" synth, just updated features and option for legacy version, or if there'd just be ES1 and ES2 mk2 separately for eg (though I'm not sure there's a point to create ES1 mk2 per se)

 

 

I think being able to switch into and out of legacy modes would be something of a god-tier update, especially if that was across the board. Not saying it is impossible, but I think its pretty unlikely that would happen. I can only dream...

 

But yeah I agree with you. There doesn't really need to be a complete overhaul with these guys, but I just wish something would happen. (just saying this to you devs though, an overhaul w/ legacy switches would be super duper cool)