Logic Pro X Playback Delay with ZL Monitored Audio

[nathanimal]

I've seen one other thread that sort of addressed this, where the OP was recording audio and monitoring it live through his audio interface's built-in mixer. The recorded audio was delayed behind the rest of his tracks when being played back, resulting in his having to manually reposition the recorded track to line up with the others.

 

I have had the same thing happen. It has always been my assumption that when recording audio AND monitoring through the audio interface - regardless of what the total mixer latency was with however many plugins - Logic Pro would put the recorded audio in the right spot on the grid corresponding to when the events actually happened in relation to the playback. i.e., no sync issues - without having to enable low-latency mode. But my recorded part was delayed by almost 140 ms upon playback! This never happened when I was a noob learning the trade on Pro Tools. The OP of the other post said he also had no such problems in DP. 

 

This has never been an issue for me before because I have always made sure to get the parts nailed in tracking before I start serious mixing with the CPU-intensive plugs. 

 

I recorded with PDC set to "audio and software instrument tracks," and verified that the recording delay was set to 0. Earlier, an attempt at recording in low latency mode with those settings resulted in playback of existing tracks being out of sync with each other. 

 

FYI, I was running Ozone 7 on the master bus, as well as a full complement of Slate Virtual Tape across every channel and the master bus, both of which cause significant latency when mixing. My buffer setting was at 128 samples, with a resulting latency of 10.2ms (again, this shouldn't matter with ZL monitoring). This was one of those situations where the mix was almost finished and the client and I decided to patch up a few parts. 

 

So my question is this: is this a flaw that has yet to be fixed by the Logic dev team? Because if so, it is a serious flaw that can profoundly disrupt work flow, as are the rest of Apple's suggestions for low latency recording. (i.e. UNLOADING high-latency plugs, not just bypassing them... say what?) 

 

Or, the other possibility - that I have no idea how to deal with latency in Logic Pro, despite having made a living with it since LP7 was first introduced.

 

Someone please tell me I'm just an ignoramus. I'd rather take the insult than face the fact that my favorite DAW has such a conspicuous flaw.

[triplets]

I never record with latency inducing plugins on the Master bus.

What about saving those plugins as a preset? Take them off when you record, then put them back on.

This workflow never gave me any out of sync or playback issues.

[nathanimal]

I usually do the same as well. But what I am saying is that the software, knowing what the total latency of the audio chain is, should be able to make that adjustment automatically after recording (i.e. not offsetting the audio file by that delay, instead putting it in sync with other recorded material). With zero latency (non-software) monitoring, it shouldn't matter how much latency is in the audio chain. Having to go through all those steps to alleviate this problem is inane, especially when you're at a point in production where mixing has been mostly completed. I should just be able to record a part into the software, with zero latency monitoring, and not have to worry about all of that, regardless of how much latency is in the audio chain. Pro Tools, and apparently Digital performer, don't have any issues with this. So again, my question is, am I doing something wrong, or is Logic just deficient in this area?

[nathanimal]

My apologies if I'm not communicating this problem clearly. I need to stress that I'm not talking about monitoring audio from the DAW software return. I'm talking about monitoring through my audio interface hardware before it hits the ADC.

[nathanimal]

I just downloaded the demo version of DP 9.1, set up a similar situation with the same plug-ins, and can confirm that in spite of high overall mixer latency in DP, it will sync what I hear through my hardware monitor with what was played back with the DAW. i.e. It does not have the same problem that Logic has. 

[nathanimal]

I also repeated an exactly identical test in Logic with all three PDC settings, and the recorded audio is out of sync even with PDC off! No setting makes any difference. Logic clearly thinks recorded audio needs to be in sync with the DAW return (software monitoring), not with real-time. 

[nathanimal]

OK, so I made an interesting discovery, and to explain it I should also explain what exactly I have done in these tests:

 

Test 1 with DP: 

1. Recorded metronome output of my V-Drums with no plugins. 

2. Put Ozone 7 Maximizer on master channel, with IRC IV (a huge latency inducing setting). The latency was clearly audible through software monitoring.

3. Recorded drum playback with the metronome click previously recorded. 

RESULT : Audio perfectly in sync in playback.

 

Test 2:

1. Recorded metronome output of my V-Drums with no plugins. 

2. Put Ozone 7 Maximizer on master channel, again with with IRC IV.

3. Recorded drum playback with the metronome click previously recorded. 

RESULT : Drum track was out of sync with the metronome click upon playback by the amount of latency induced by Ozone 7 Max.

 

Test 3:

1. Recorded metronome output of my V-Drums with no plugins. 

2. Put Ozone 7 Maximizer on the METRONOME audio channel (not the OUTPUT), with IRC IV. Still produced significant latency through software monitoring. 

3. Recorded drum playback with the metronome click previously recorded. 

RESULT : Audio perfectly in sync in playback.

 

This corroborates with what I have read about Logic DELAYING audio streams when using latency-inducing plugins on the master output, but shifts playback of audio tracks FORWARD to compensate for latency inducing plugins. 

 

Still, I feel like this is a rather significant flaw that other DAW softwares don't have. I shouldn't have to unload plugs on the master output to solve this problem.

[triplets]

Then maybe DP is the DAW you need for your workflow?

[Eric Cardenas]

This is what Low Latency Mode is for. 

Enabling LLM will circumvent plug-in latency for the record enabled track/tracks. 

 

You can also set Plug-in Latency Compensation to Audio and Instrument channels and deal with the latency in a similar form as DP.

[nathanimal]

And I have used Low Latency Mode in the past, but it's only a half solution, since it disables plugins that have a significant effect on the sound of the whole mix. It would be nice to keep those plugs intact and still be able to record a new track that plays back in sync with the other tracks, without the compromises that have been elaborated on - as other DAWs do.

[nathanimal]

I have formulated a workaround by using an EQ instance and the limiter plugin on the master output, which can be quickly adjusted to approximate the levels and balance of the full mix bus chain, stored as a channel strip setting that I can quickly load. I have invested so much time and effort into Logic, I am not going to switch DAWs because of this one flaw... one that I have reported to the dev team, and am confident will be addressed in the next major revision. Logic is still the best, in my opinion.

[nathanimal]

I retested this issue after thinking about this thread again - with v. 10.3.2 - still no change.

[nathanimal]

I wanted to revisit this. I tried this again with v. 10.7.4, and interestingly, with software monitoring off, regardless of having a 1024 sample buffer and high latency plugins on my stereo bus... the audio lines up. But as soon as I enable software monitoring (which of course resulted in an unacceptable delay), the audio was delayed relative to the beats in the timeline. See the attached picture. The bottom recording, recorded with no software monitoring with open-ear headphones, is lined up with the grid (other than my human timing being off), but the upper recording (with software monitoring) is delayed about 3400 samples, which is the sum of the stereo bus processing plus the audio engine buffer. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by nathanimal