New iMac Pro announced! $5,000 – Arrives December

[triplets]

Man, I feel your pain.

Luckily my trusty old 2009 8-core does everything I need and I don't have to run Kontakt and all those CPU sucking samplers.

Found an upgraded 2009 3.46 8-core with PCIe SSDs for 700 bucks on craigslist and it's a monster.

Amazing how the cheese-grater continues to be useful in audio.

[David Nahmani]

I used to change Mac every other year or so but my cheese-grater Mac Pro is the computer I've kept the longest. Need to update very soon though. 

[Cephalopod]

I used to change Mac every other year or so but my cheese-grater Mac Pro is the computer I've kept the longest. Need to update very soon though. 

Reading your sig, do you really only have 6GB of RAM in there?

[David Nahmani]

Reading your sig, do you really only have 6GB of RAM in there?

Yes. 

[zambra]

AMD Ryzen ...  I was expecting low prices not higher prices..

apple products are more expensive every year.. it should be the other way around.

[triplets]

I used to change Mac every other year or so but my cheese-grater Mac Pro is the computer I've kept the longest. Need to update very soon though. 

Yeah, you have the 2008 tower.

Find a 2009 8-core. It's worth it if you don't need Thunderbolt and you can add a USB 3 PCIe card. Works like a charm.

[David Nahmani]

Find a 2009 8-core. It's worth it if you don't need Thunderbolt and you can add a USB 3 PCIe card. Works like a charm.

That's good advice, I'll have to look into it. I'm also considering a 'regular' new 27" iMac. 

[Glenn L.]

Pffft. I do just fine with my rig.

[lukeofguitar]

Does anyone know the benefits of a 6 or 8 cores on a mac for logic pro? Also, I have read online that single core performance is king and it is advisable to get the highest single core performing processor with at least 4 cores. Is this correct?

[Cephalopod]

Does anyone know the benefits of a 6 or 8 cores on a mac for logic pro? Also, I have read online that single core performance is king and it is advisable to get the highest single core performing processor with at least 4 cores. Is this correct?

LPX has pretty good multi-core implementation and will benefit from more cores.  Of course, processor speed also matters.  Will a faster 4 core outperform a 6 or 8 core with a slower processor?  It really depends on which processor, how big a difference in clock speed there is, and what plugins you are using in Logic.

[skijumptoes]

Yeah more cores give you an overall better processing power, however, each core is subject it's own headroom, it's a bit like asking if a crate of 8x 500ml bottles is better for carrying milk than a crate of 4x 750ml.  Of course, yes, 4,000ml vs 3,000ml is clear the 8x is better as you get more milk per crate.

 

However, if the dispenser you're using is preset to release doses of  600ml into each bottle, 4x750ml would be more efficient as each bottle can hold a greater volume (i.e. process more tasks in the case of logic), the 500ml bottles would be wasteful and spill over (In Logic this would result in a system overload, halting playback).

 

Logic Plugins and channel strips determine the 'amount' going in to a single core. If you have many small plugins running  (Let's say 50ml of milk in the example above) then Logic can distribute them evenly into cores ('bottles') to be processed, in that scenario then the total multi-core power available rules, as logic has a crate of empty bottles to distribute into, and can do so with many manageable chunks maximising each core.

 

However, If you're dealing with more cpu intensive plugins however, you will fill cores up quicker as the un-seperatable load is greater, but most importantly as processes cannot always be split across cores you may not be using the full potential of each core.

 

i.e. you can't fit 2x 300ml helpings in a 500ml bottle, and most of the time Logic cannot even put 500ml in the first bottle (core), and the remaining 100ml in the next either.  Which means you could effectively be using more cores, but at a far lower efficiency.  i.e. 2x 500ml bottles (cores) with 300ml of each in.

 

This is why many people use Logic stock plugins, they're very cpu friendly and in my experience, if you're running on an older 8-12 core system, it will absolutely knock the socks of a modern quad core system.

 

Horses for courses as they say! Or Milk....

[paulcristo]

Personally I don't feel like I need a $5,000 Mac at the center of my studio. It looks like Apple feels the same as I don't see a single screenshot of the new iMac Pro with Logic displayed on the screen. So... a machine for Final Cut Pro editors? 

Would you say the $5,000 iMac is overkill for your needs, or anyone using Logic in the most hardware/processor-intensive way?  About seven years ago I was in the market for a new Mac so I called the Apple Store and posed the same question about the 12-core vs the 8-core Macs.  Basically, they said there's the 8-core and the 12-core were the same in terms of the demands of Logic Pro; that the 12-core wasn't going to give any more power than the 8-core.  I wonder if that's now true for this new iMac Pro.  Is it overkill for even the most complex Logic Pro session?

[David Nahmani]

Would you say the $5,000 iMac is overkill for your needs, or anyone using Logic in the most hardware/processor-intensive way? 

It's overkill for my own personal needs, but everyone's needs are different. No computer is ideal. And it's a complex task to define what makes "the most complex Logic sessions." A Logic session is made of multiple components: software instruments, effect plug-ins, audio recordings, samples or sample libraries, apple loops, flexed or follow-tempo audio, frozen tracks, other tools such as VEP, 3rd party plug-ins...etc. All of those components use different computer resources in different ways: hard drive, CPU, RAM... 

[lukeofguitar]

Thanks cephalopod and skiijumptoess. Really helpful responses.

[angelonyc]

In 2015 my 2008 Mac Pro broke.. I took it  in, and was told Apple no longer serviced or carried parts for the 2008.. either in the stores or Apple headquarters..  I used to  update every 3 years for many years.. But then I took to buying the top of the line, and did get an extra 2 - 3 years..  The 2008 certainly didn't owe me anything.  But then I just figured the 2009's, 2010's etc would be put to pasture at the same pace. 

 

I do appreciate that the technology gets exponently better.. If I was still running a business, and could write it off, it wouldn't be so bad. But I'm retired now. and can't afford the 'cutting edge' anymore.. 

 

We'll see.. The bottom line is I've been with Apple and Logic a very long time.. The truth is, Logic is a high end DAW at a cheap price compared to other DAWs.  

[Pvalz]

Personally I don't feel like I need a $5,000 Mac at the center of my studio. It looks like Apple feels the same as I don't see a single screenshot of the new iMac Pro with Logic displayed on the screen. So... a machine for Final Cut Pro editors? 

 

The fear I have is that apple update logic pro x and can be used only with the latest computers, it would be to say, goodbye logic, a pity, I hope that does not happen.

[skijumptoes]

The fear I have is that apple update logic pro x and can be used only with the latest computers, it would be to say, goodbye logic, a pity, I hope that does not happen.

That won't happen, and even if it did then the Hackintosh market would explode for power users on a budget, and that would be the last thing Apple would like to see happen.

 

Edit: Apologies, i thought you were implying that Logic would only run on high end machines (i.e. as per the iMac in this thread).

Edited June 9, 2017 by skijumptoes

[stardustmedia]

Personally I don't feel like I need a $5,000 Mac at the center of my studio. It looks like Apple feels the same as I don't see a single screenshot of the new iMac Pro with Logic displayed on the screen. So... a machine for Final Cut Pro editors? 

 

The fear I have is that apple update logic pro x and can be used only with the latest computers, it would be to say, goodbye logic, a pity, I hope that does not happen.

 

Sure this will happen at some point. That's normal. No developer can support old stuff forever. Doesn't make sense to have an OS supporting ALL hardware.

[scottkrk]

The availability of the iMac Pro in December is great news, as was the announcement that Apple is working on a modular Mac Pro.

 

In the last 5-10 years most of the performance increases in desktop chips has been happening with GPUs not in x86 CPUs. Innovation is driven by competition (AMD/Nividia), VR/AR being the 'next big thing' not to mention the bigger shift from desktop to mobile, ARM anyone? 

 

Given that LPX and plugins run on the CPU and don't/can't tap into the GPU, shouldn't people be complaining about Intel and AMD? Intel for small performance increases in each generation and AMD for not effectively competing with Intel? In fact in the last 7 years most Mac performance gains have come from the move to SSDs and moving storage and peripherals to the PCIe bus.

 

Everyone's use case is different, personally I will take a look at the iMac Pro but if I bought one it wouldn't be because my 2012 iMac can't satisfactory run my LPX projects, it would be for other reasons....

[Ploki]

I too would like to see more of GPU utilized in audio processing.

[scottkrk]

Yes there were high hopes about 5 years ago that GPU parallelism could be used for audio DSP but it never happened but if/when it does happen Gerhard and the Logic team will be in the best position to bring it to market because Apple controls the Hardware/OS/DAW.

 

One of the many reasons to stick with Apple and Logic!

[MikeRobinson]

A "G"PU is also a fundamentally-different type of computing hardware:  "a massively-parallel array processor."  Graphics work of course involves a lot of math that must be applied to thousands of pixels at once.  GPUs can literally multiply thousands of numbers ("matrices") at one time because the chip has the physical hardware to do that.  How this would be useful to accelerate audio processing, I don't know.

 

Still, when I see all these tricked-out  iMacs, I find myself longing for the "tower case" models that Apple used to offer.  I like for there to be plenty of air circulation – big fans, mounting brackets for disk drives, and so on.  Heat dissipation has been an issue with every iMac that I have ever owned, when I started putting it to work.

[skijumptoes]

Mike, i'm the same, it freaks me out a little to think what's in such a confined space and how a machine like that copes with heat build up if put under load for hours in a working day.  Apple are particularly adverse to fans making any noise too, so the heat usually has to hit high levels before you can hear them cut in.

 

The amount of HDD's i've had to change in iMac's in the past has been ridiculous.  Although all the SSD equipped models seem to be much better, i guess that helps immensely with heat.

 

SSD's compared to their moving counterparts could almost be seen as destination for heat to dissipate to, rather than a source where it's generated.

 

As for GPU's, i thought some windows VST's were already making use of Nvidia GPU's thanks to the devkits they put out?

[Wolfie2112]

Check this out....

https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/13/maxed-out-imac-pro-cost/

[Ashermusic]

I don't believe for a nanosecond that Apple will be selling a $17,000 computer.

[Wolfie2112]

I could see around $15K though. Just for shitzengiggles, I priced out a maxed-out trash can at the local Apple Store and it came in at just over $10K CDN. Insane.

[MikeRobinson]

Oh yes, you can spend that much for a Macintosh computer! 

 

However, when I spend that much money on a machine, it isn't going anywhere near Starbucks!  Instead, I want the machine to sit inside a large metal box on or beside my desk, and I want that box to be filled with heat-sinks and big fans.  Just like it used to be.  Apple knows how to build a tower-case and still make it look (sort of ...) sexy.

 

I know that I am going to be sitting in one place, doing things that are going to cause the CPU chips, especially, to crank out a lot of heat.  I want the case itself to help to dissipate that heat.  I don't mind hearing a fan whirring in the background all the time.

[scottkrk]

There is no doubt that Apple made serious errors with Apple desktop hardware and neglected MacOS after Steve Jobs passing and the subsequent painful reorganisation. Apple acknowledged problems with the Mac Pro earlier in the year and pre announced the return of a modular Mac Pro next year and iMac Pros this year.

 

If you are interested in the future of the Mac I would highly recommend watching John Gruber's discussion with Phil Schiller and Craig Federighi. In my opinion Apple have rebalanced their focus across the various product lines and MacOS and mac desktops are getting the attention they deserve.  Logic users are not reason for this change but we are certainly the beneficiaries of more attention on the Mac. I'm very excited to see what Gerhard and the Logic team do with all the upcoming improvements in High Sierra and hardware....

 

 

 

[vimeo]220770851[/vimeo]

[fernmeister]

It's fascinating to see this machine just to try and understand who Apple is targeting now with their "Pro" hardware.

 

For LPX, my old 2008 Mac Pro is still running well, with no hiccups. I'm slightly nervous now it's outside the support of the latest OS, but only slightly, since the machine is an audio only workstation.

[dysamoria]

It's fascinating to see this machine just to try and understand who Apple is targeting now with their "Pro" hardware.

 

For LPX, my old 2008 Mac Pro is still running well, with no hiccups. I'm slightly nervous now it's outside the support of the latest OS, but only slightly, since the machine is an audio only workstation.

i suspect this iMac Pro was in the end-stages of development when Apple finally started to actually notice a critical mass was building in criticism against their attention on content creators and other working professionals. It was probably around the time of the greatly mocked 2016 MacBook "Pro"that they started to catch a clue that things weren't good... with articles like this becoming more common: https://medium.com/charged-tech/apple-just-told-the-world-it-has-no-idea-who-the-mac-is-for-722a2438389b

 

i've no interest in this new iMac Pro. Of course i would take one if gifted to me, but my limited experience with an iMac and two Macbook Pro units has me highly against the notion of a compact, all-in-one machine for various reasons. Aside from iPad and iPhone, which really need to be as compact as possible, the pathology of thinness at Apple has really gone toward making me feel Apple is the enemy, like so many blind corporate machines. (iOS 7 was the start of my Apple ire, though)