Amplitube 5 Midi control

[Flood]

Hi folks, looking for help with this. I have Amplitube 5 loaded into an audio track and all works fine. Now I want to control the Wah pedal with my Line 6 foot controller via a USB cable. I right click over the Wah and pick up learn Midi. It then tells me to move a controller to learn. Nothing happens... I tried loading Amplitube on a Midi track and bingo.. the Wha picked up the pedal ok so I wonder why this works on an instrument track but not an audio track. Can anyone help me?

Regards Trev

[des99]

Plugins on audio tracks don't receive MIDI, so you can't MIDI learn in the plugin.

 

Either use Logic's controller assignments to learn a MIDI message to a plugin control, or use the plugin in the "MIDI FX" mode, which has a bit more convoluted routing, but now will receive incoming MIDI which you can MIDI learn in the plugin directly.

[supanorton]

Hi folks, looking for help with this. I have Amplitube 5 loaded into an audio track and all works fine. Now I want to control the Wah pedal with my Line 6 foot controller via a USB cable. I right click over the Wah and pick up learn Midi. It then tells me to move a controller to learn. Nothing happens... I tried loading Amplitube on a Midi track and bingo.. the Wha picked up the pedal ok so I wonder why this works on an instrument track but not an audio track. Can anyone help me?

Regards Trev

 

Were you able to figure this out?

[supanorton]

For anyone else, this worked perfectly. You can't use Amplitube 5's wahs, but the Logic wahs sound great and respond to the full range of my expression pedal via the macro control. Configure the Logic wah of your choice as shown in the video, then load Amplitube 5 in the second audio fx slot of the same track and record your guitar and your wah automation on the same track.

 

[supanorton]

On 3/11/2021 at 10:57 PM, supanorton said:

 

Were you able to figure this out?

This is my new solution. Works every time.

 

[ericthered]

Hello,

I am working through a similar issue myself now, having just bought Amplitube 5 during their Black Friday sale.

I can use my midi controller's expression pedal when I load AT5 as a software instrument, but when I side chain input 1, I get latency when monitoring that track.

I can use AT5 as a plugin on a track with no (noticeable) latency, but it can't learn the MIDI input - as was already described in the second post.

My question is how to: "...use Logic's controller assignments to learn a MIDI message to a plugin control"? Is that what is being done in the video posted by supanorton? (Obviously on a different plugin)

Or how do I reduce latency when using the plugin as described in the above video? I am assuming that when des99 is saying to use the plugin in "MIDI FX" mode, he is describing the same process as in the above video.

Thanks, I am learning this stuff as I go.

[skijumptoes]

On 11/28/2022 at 5:59 PM, ericthered said:

My question is how to: "...use Logic's controller assignments to learn a MIDI message to a plugin control"? Is that what is being done in the video posted by supanorton? (Obviously on a different plugin)

Yes, that would be my preferred method rather than all this side chaining messing around, I'd expose the wah in amplitube to be automated, i.e right click the wah and pick "Assign Automation - Param 1".   (Not map to MIDI as per the other method)

And then map whatever MIDI pedal to a macro control in Logic, then that macro control targets the "Param 1" assignment you just setup in Amplitube.

That way you are left with a single clean guitar audio track with Amplitube as it's plugin, and automation controlling the Wah movements which makes for much easier editing afterwards.

On 11/28/2022 at 5:59 PM, ericthered said:

how do I reduce latency when using the plugin as described in the above video?

Latency applies across the project as a whole, but you only notice it when live monitoring.  So the latency could be anywhere in your project.

Normally it's plugins that need to "lookahead" at the audio coming in to them which cause higher latencies.  i.e. Multi-compressors, limiters.

So, Either disable plugins on channels that are causing such latency, or much easier, simply enable Low Latency Mode (LLC) mode when you wish to record.   

LLC will disable plugins over a certain threshold for you automatically:

[ericthered]

Quote

And then map whatever MIDI pedal to a macro control in Logic, then that macro control targets the "Param 1" assignment you just setup in Amplitube.

Yeah I had some time to try this out. Had to do a bit of research on macros in general first, but now I know how to do it this way, and I agree (in my limited knowledge) it seems like the best way to do this.

In AT, I assigned the Wah to "param 1", then in the smart controls menu, I found the tab that had some knobs already mapped to AT, and asked the "param 1" knob to learn from my expression pedal (under External Assignment).

I've found that doing it this way also allows you to map multiple parameters to a single expression pedal, so that really opens up some cool possibilities. I had a wah, phaser and an Opto-tremolo intensity knob all linked to my pedal and it was working great. It didn't look like I could invert the control or manage the range, but I didn't dig too deep. It is lots of fun playing around with multiple parameters on one pedal, and the mind boggles at all the combinations.

(I already started looking into how to make a MIDI-controller, I want a multi-pedal-board for this!)

So far I've found that learning the terminology for what I want to do is half the battle, but this is really great software, both Amplitube and Logic.

Thank you skijumptoes 😁

[carlaz]

Bumping this thread, as I have questions similar to those above -- though the information here hasn't quite got me sorted out.

Actually, I think I have something odd going on since I used to be able to use my expression pedal to control AmpliTube in Logic  -- exactly as shown in the "How do I get an Expression Pedal to work in AmpliTube 5 with Logic Pro...??" video from TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow, as posted above by supanorton -- but now I apparently cannot! 😩

I should add that I can merrily assign MIDI control from my expression pedal within the AmpliTube standalone app, and -- in Logic -- I can confirm that I see the appropriate MIDI In stuff in Logic's LCD panel. 

But, although I set up a Software Instrument track with AmpliTube 5 in the track's "Instrument" spot, when I then go to assign MIDI within the AmpliTube plugin and "Learn" the wah, the plugin just sits there "waiting for MIDI input" even though I'm moving the expression pedal and can see the MIDI info changing on the LCD's MIDI In section.

Weirdly, if I open another audio track, add an instance of Logic's stock Pedalboard plugin with one of its wah pedals, I can then open the Smart Controls (with the Inspector) and easily use the Learn button to assign my expression pedal to control the "Pedal Position" parameter! (I don't even need to do the macro stuff as described in the "Controlling Pedalboard With An Expression Pedal - Logic Pro X Tutorial" video from Decibel Peak, also posted above.)

So ... why is AmpliTube 5 steadfastly ignoring MIDI input when I can see that MIDI input (with the correct CC# etc.) exists?

And, OK, having just gone through all that, here's something else weird: if I have the AmpliTube plugin loaded on a track, but I have opened the Smart Controls, I find that the LCD stops showing MIDI In information (!) but that my expression pedal is moving the Smart Control "knob" for "Parameter 3", though this is not assigned to anything as far as I know. However, as my expression pedal actually also has a button (like a traditional wah pedal), clicking that does show its input in the LCD's MIDI In, even though it doesn't seem to control anything within the plugin and I can't seem to assign it to control anything via MIDI Learn within the plugin.

So ... this is all very odd an frustrating, especially as I know I made it work before! I have Logic projects from a year or so ago where I recorded wah guitar exactly as shown in the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video -- I just can't get it to work now.

I feel like there must be some issue with the configuration of something, but I am starting to just go in circles trying to figure out what.

Any ideas?

Edited June 26, 2023 by carlaz

[supanorton]

I have to leave for work, but I'll test this later and report back. 

[carlaz]

I did some further testing of my own. I found an old project in which I set up and recorded wah guitar using my same expression pedal rig and AmpliTube 5 as shown in the video from TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow. (I find I had even labeled the audio track "Sweet Wah Guitar Audio" and the controlling Software Instrument track "Sweet Wah Guitar MIDI". 😁)

When I play back what I had recorded (the project was last modified in late 2021), I hear the wah guitar -- so, clearly, I had captured the MIDI information from the expression pedal as expected, and that captured/written MIDI info is still processing the DI audio along with the rest of the processing in the AmpliTube plugin. (And the little wah pedal in the plugin moves around appropriately during playback.)

However, if I try to record new wah guitar in the same project, the same expression pedal going through the same AXE I/O interface (both audio and MIDI) doesn't control the pedal -- and I actually do not see MIDI In info in the LCD display when I waggle the expression pedal.

(Weirdly, if I open a completely new project, I also see no MIDI In info when waggling the expression pedal, but I can assign the expression pedal to control a wah from Logic's stock Pedalboard plugin, opening the Smart Controls' Inspector, and clicking External Assignment > Learn; this shows me "Control Change Ch 1, 11, Lo7: Learned", which is exactly what I expect the MIDI control from the expression pedal to do, even though no Ch 1 CC# 11 change info shows up in the LCD!)

In both cases -- the old project with successfully recorded expression pedal MIDI, and any blank new project, clicking the wah-style toggle button on my physical pedal does register its separate MIDI In info in the LCD, and it does actually toggle the AmpliTube wah pedal on/of in the old project, as expected. However, if I load the same AmpliTube preset into a new blank project, even though the LCD Midi In seems to correctly indicate when I press the physical toggle button on the pedal, it refuses to toggle the AmpliTube wah, nor can I assign any MIDI from the pedal's expression treadle or toggle button to anything else within AmpliTube.

I feel like something has changed in the "background" MIDI configuration for Logic that is preventing MIDI from the expression pedal from being registered. Have I by accident permanently assigned MIDI from the pedal's CC# numbers (or something) to something else? I tried things like "Rebuild All Defaults" in the Control Surfaces commands, but it doesn't seem to have made a difference. Clearly, the expression pedal sends MIDI to the Mac (since it controls things as expected in the standalone AmpliTube app, but there is something funny in how Logic is seeing things, where the pedal can be made to control some things even though no MIDI In is registered in the LCD!).

Edited June 26, 2023 by carlaz

[JakobP]

Since you have assigned your cc11 pedal to a smart control, you can no longer record that midi, it's now "reserved" for its controller assignment(s). You could use the "Bypass all Control Surfaces" (main menu Logic Pro > Control Surfaces) function  to toggle the functionality...

[carlaz]

2 hours ago, JakobP said:

Since you have assigned your cc11 pedal to a smart control, you can no longer record that midi, it's now "reserved" for its controller assignment(s). You could use the "Bypass all Control Surfaces" (main menu Logic Pro > Control Surfaces) function  to toggle the functionality...

Ah ha! I wondered if it was something like that, though I lack the technical knowledge to entirely understand. 

"Bypass All Control Surfaces" returned the display of CC#11 info to MIDI In on the LCD. I then went into Control Surfaces > Controller Assignments, found what seemed to be the saved assignment, and deleted it. This also seems to have returned the display of CC#11 info to Midi In on the LCD without the need to "Bypass All Control Surfaces".

Then, opening again the old saved project in which I successfully recorded wah guitar as per the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video: yes. Now I can actually control the wah in AmpliTube and hear the results within that project. Yay. 🎉

But, if I open a blank new project, and make a new "Audio Track + Software Instrument" setup as shown in the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video: no. I cannot control the wah in AmpliTube (even though I have loaded the same AmpliTube preset with the wah already assigned as is in the old project in which it works) although I can otherwise hear the effects of the AmpliTube plugin (and control the wah with my mouse, for what's that's worth). I can still see CC#11 info for MIDI In in the LCD when I waggle the pedal (and, indeed, CC#65 data when I click the toggle switch), so Logic is receiving MIDI data from the expression pedal, and the AmpliTube plugin interface tells me that the wah treadle and on/off switch is assigned to those CC numbers .... It's just not doing anything. 🙄 Likewise, if I delete the pre-existing MIDI assignments in the AmpliTube preset and try to re-assign with MIDI Learn, the plugin just sits there waiting for MIDI data as though nothing were happening, even though I can see the CC#11 info for MIDI In in the LCD.

So ... it's strange that the (apparently) same setup seems to work in the old project, but not in the new project. Perhaps there is some sort of per-project setting or Logic default that has changed between when I last recorded in the old project (late 2021) and now? (Or I changed something without knowing it?) 

Why should the plugin read MIDI data as expected in the old project, but totally ignore it in a new project? 🤯

Edited June 26, 2023 by carlaz

[JakobP]

It can receive midi when inserted in a software instrument slot, but not when on an audio channel strip. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by JakobP

[carlaz]

7 minutes ago, JakobP said:

It can receive midi when inserted in a software instrument slot, but not when on an audio channel strip. 

But, when I set this up from scratch in a new project, just as shown in the as shown in the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video, I am inserting AmpliTube as the "Instrument" on a Software Instrument track (with the sidechain receiving audio from the audio input into which my guitar is plugged on my interface). But even so, the plugin ignores MIDI data .... when I try to set this up from scratch.

As an experiment, I saved user patches based on the audio track and software instrument track from the old project in which this setup worked. When I load these patches in a new project (and do not make any changes to the wah in the associated Amplitude preset), yes, I can use AmpliTube on the software instrument track to control the sound it receives from the audio input sidechain, etc.

But only if I do not change the AmpliTube preset stored in the saved user patch.

As soon as I move away from functioning MIDI wah in that preset, I am unable to assign MIDI control to a new wah (or any other AmpliTube control in the plugin). Likewise, if I load an AmpliTube preset with no wah, add a wah, and try to assign MIDI control: no dice. If, after doing this, I re-load the same preset that is associated with the saved user patch: also no dice.

It's as if the patch with the AmpliTube preset as saved from the old project in which things worked as expected will continue to work as expected, but any subsequent change to the AmpliTube preset "breaks the magic" -- and AmpliTube once again ignores MIDI controller data. 😵‍💫

Also weirdly: If I open up the old project (in which the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow method worked), I can make any changes there to AmpliTube (change wahs, add wahs to wah-less presets, etc.) and the system continues to work as expected. I can then save the software instrument track (with whatever changes) from that old project as a user patch, and that patch will then work as set when loaded into any new project -- but, again, any subsequent change to the AmpliTube preset within the patch consistently "breaks the magic", and MIDI control stops working. 🤯

So there is some "magic" in the way the tracks were set up in the old project, and that "magic" can be "copied" to a new project, but then messing with it breaks that "magic".

There must be something configurational going on ... though I remain unsure what. Going back and setting up presets in the old project and saving them as new user patches is a sort of functional, but very awkward, workaround -- and there shouldn't really be a need for a workaround here, I feel. 🤔

[supanorton]

Sorry it took me so long to test this.

Following the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video step by step, everything works as expected here. 

I created a new project and started from scratch. Let me know if you'd like me to test something else. Maybe we can narrow it down.

M2 MacBook Pro, Ventura 13.3.1

Logic Pro X 10.7.7

AmpliTube 5.5.6

 

[carlaz]

2 hours ago, supanorton said:

Sorry it took me so long to test this.

Following the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video step by step, everything works as expected here. 

I created a new project and started from scratch. Let me know if you'd like me to test something else. Maybe we can narrow it down.

M2 MacBook Pro, Ventura 13.3.1

Logic Pro X 10.7.7

AmpliTube 5.5.6

OK, yes, since I can’t get this to work from scratch in my current set-up (though the old project works! and user patches saved from the old project work), I would like to pin down what the issue is. It could, I suppose, be something weird and complicated – or some dumb, simple setting somewhere? Anyway:

• iMac (Retina 5k 27” 2020)
• MacOS Monterey 12.6.7
• Logic Pro 10.7.8 (Build Version 5817)
• AmpliTube 5.5.6
• Audio/MIDI Interface: AXE I/O; App: 1.2.0 (0I22); Firmware 1.0.5
• Expression Pedal: Mission SP-1. The expression pedal uses CC#11; there is also a toggle switch that sends alternating CC#65 0 and 127 messages when clicked (essentially an “on”/”off” switch).

I do wonder if there might be settings in Logic Pro (or even in the AXE I/O? Or even in Audio MIDI Setup?) that affect how incoming MIDI is used/affected that I could/should try to reset to defaults? I have, of course, tried to reset some things to defaults when I see the option – though there could easily be (and, based on the trouble I have getting this work, probably are?) things that should be reset. In any case ….

Below, I document how I follow the explanatory video from TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow step-by-step  (since, anyway, when I need a reminder of how to do this, I will find it easier to follow written steps than go skimming through the video) up to the point at which problems (for me) occur.

All my hardware is connected in advance:

• Guitar audio to Audio Input I on the AXE I/O.
• SP-1 expression pedal via two ¼” MIDI cables to MIDI Inputs 1 and 2 on the AXE I/O.
• AXE I/O to iMac via standard USB cable.

And I can confirm that it is possible to assign and reassign MIDI control from the pedal to controls within the standalone AmpliTube app, with everything working as expected there. 👌

My implementation of the process/set-up from the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video is as follows:

1. Open Logic Pro.
2. Choose the “Create a new empty project” option.
3. When prompted to choose a track type, choose “Audio” with the details: “Audio” > “Input 1” (from the AXE I/O), and “Audio Output” > “Output 1 + 2” (to the AXE I/O) with “Input Monitoring” and “Record Enable” options checked.
4. Label this audio track “Sweet Wah Guitar Audio DI”.
5. Confirm that strumming the guitar sends audio in/out to/from “Sweet Wah Guitar Audio DI” (and adjust levels if necessary).
6. Mute the “Sweet Wah Guitar Audio DI” audio track.
7. Confirm that Logic’s LCD MIDI In display shows incoming MIDI data from the expression pedal treadle and toggle switch.
8. Create a new track of the type “Software Instrument” with the details: “Instrument” > “AU MIDI-controlled Effects” > “IK Multimedia” > “AmpliTube 5”, and “Audio Output” > “Output 1 + 2” (to the AXE I/O).
9. Label this software instrument track “Sweet Wah Guitar MIDI”.
10. On the software instrument track “Sweet Wah Guitar MIDI”, open the instance of the AmpliTube 5 plugin.
11. If the default preset loaded in the AmpliTube plugin has no wah, add an available wah pedal.
12. Within the AmpliTube plugin, right-click on the treadle portion of the wah pedal, and choose “Assign MIDI” > “Wah” > “Learn Wah”.
13. After the plugin displays “Waiting for MIDI Input”, on the physical expression pedal, move the treadle.

At this point, the plugin should recognize the MIDI information sent from the expression pedal, the “Waiting for MIDI Input” message should disappear, and the virtual pedal UI within the AmpliTube plugin should begin to move in alignment with the motions of the treadle on the physical expression pedal.

However, in my case, although Logic’s LCD continues to show changing MIDI In data for CC#11 as I move the treadle on the physical expression pedal, the AmpliTube plugin just sits with the “Waiting for MIDI Input” message.

Thus, as best as I can understand it, the problem is: although Logic recognizes incoming MIDI data, the AmpliTube plugin loaded within Logic either does not recognize or does not receive that MIDI data.

Could there be some other configuration/setting that is “soaking up” the incoming MIDI data from the expression pedal and preventing it from going to (or being recognized by) AmpliTube? This is why I wonder (as also noted above) whether there is some way of clearing (or at least checking) pre-existing configurations/settings associated with external controllers? What should I do or look for? 🤔

That said, it is remarkable that:

• My old project from 2021 that used this same set-up still works as expected (as shown in the YouTube video).
• User patches of the audio/software tracks saved from that old project and loaded into a new project work as-is ...
• But, within the instance of AmpliTube loaded from those user patches, changing the virtual wah  and trying to assign MIDI control to the new virtual wah fails -- exactly as trying to set up the tracks from scratch does (i.e., the plugin is “Waiting for MIDI Input", but does not receive/recognize it, despite Logic's LCD showing changing MIDI In data).

So it is as though something about the old project allowed MIDI-learning to work, and whatever that was gets reproduced through the user patches saved from that old project -- but whatever that something is dies once one effectively disables the "saved" MIDI assignment and tries to get AmpliTube to learn MIDI again within the new project. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by carlaz

[carlaz]

As a note, in the description of the process above, I do not talk about sidechaining the audio from audio Input 1 into the AmpliTube instance on the software instrument track -- since the process I am imitating from the video fails at the point of assigning MIDI anyway -- but, just for the record, that does work. 

[supanorton]

I don't have any old projects with wah guitar recorded this way, but I did save my test from this morning. When I open that test project and hit play, everything plays back as it was recorded.

I can make changes to the amp settings, speakers and cabinets, rooms, etc. with no change to the recorded midi wah playback.

I can bring in other pedals, change their settings, and their order in the chain ONLY in the AT5 window that shows the entire signal chain (on the bottom). However, if I replace the current wah with a different one, the recorded wah midi information no longer plays back and the new pedal doesn't move in the "gear view" window.

Additionally, if I add any pedals in the "gear view" window, the recorded midi will no longer playback.

It seems that changing the wah or changing anything in the "gear view" window cancels out the recorded midi. The midi information is still there and the wah pedal still "moves", but there's no audio of the wah information. Replacing the wah pedal with another cancels the audio and the new wah doesn't move; although, the midi information is still present on the track. 

My AXE I/O is version 1.2.1 2A21, and I've never updated the firmware. 

Maybe watch the video again? Maybe you missed something. 

If you'd like me to look at or test something else, please let me know. I love midi but know very little about how it works, which is why I love TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video. 

[supanorton]

2 hours ago, carlaz said:

And I can confirm that it is possible to assign and reassign MIDI control from the pedal to controls within the standalone AmpliTube app, with everything working as expected there. 👌

I'm curious if you are able to record the wah inside AT5. I couldn't figure it out. 

[carlaz]

9 minutes ago, supanorton said:

I'm curious if you are able to record the wah inside AT5. I couldn't figure it out. 

You mean, within the standalone AT5 application, using its kind of rudimentary DAW? I admit that I've never tried that ... so I did. It turns out that, within the standalone AT5 application, while I can easily assign MIDI control to the virtual wah and hear it while I'm playing, if I just click the "Record" button in the built-in AmpliTube 5 DAW, it records audio with all the effects (amp sim tone, etc.) except the wah. It may simply be that the standalone AT5 application's built-in DAW has no way to record MIDI data, even though it can use MIDI data to control effects in real-time. 🤷‍♂️

[supanorton]

Yes, that's what I meant. I was thinking it might be easier to import a mix down into AT5 and record the wah guitar part there and then export the recorded guitar into Logic. I don't think it works either. No one on IK's forum was able to help with that. I think I contacted IK support about it, which I normally do when I need help, but I don't remember. Maybe I'll try again. It would be nice if there was an elegant way to do this. 

[carlaz]

40 minutes ago, supanorton said:

I don't have any old projects with wah guitar recorded this way, but I did save my test from this morning. When I open that test project and hit play, everything plays back as it was recorded.

I can make changes to the amp settings, speakers and cabinets, rooms, etc. with no change to the recorded midi wah playback.

I can bring in other pedals, change their settings, and their order in the chain ONLY in the AT5 window that shows the entire signal chain (on the bottom). However, if I replace the current wah with a different one, the recorded wah midi information no longer plays back and the new pedal doesn't move in the "gear view" window.

Additionally, if I add any pedals in the "gear view" window, the recorded midi will no longer playback.

It seems that changing the wah or changing anything in the "gear view" window cancels out the recorded midi. The midi information is still there and the wah pedal still "moves", but there's no audio of the wah information. Replacing the wah pedal with another cancels the audio and the new wah doesn't move; although, the midi information is still present on the track. 

My AXE I/O is version 1.2.1 2A21, and I've never updated the firmware. 

Maybe watch the video again? Maybe you missed something. 

If you'd like me to look at or test something else, please let me know. I love midi but know very little about how it works, which is why I love TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video. 

Yes, I think even in the standalone AmpliTube 5 app, if you have assigned MIDI to a given control on a given "piece of gear", replacing that "piece of gear" eliminates assigned MIDI. (So, for example, you can't assign MIDI to control a given wah pedal, and then replace that wah pedal and have the same MIDI assignment keep controlling the new wah pedal. Equally, moving a pedal with assigned MIDI eliminates the MIDI assignment; I think this means that moving a pedal is functionally the same as deleting it and then re-adding it to the chain. Checking the AT5 manual, I see that there is a process that is supposed to set up "Global" MIDI control such that "The control assignment that you’ve created in this way (Global) is valid for all presets and will apply to any preset loaded or newly created". Possibly, then, one could tell AmpliTube to always treat certain MIDI as a way to control any wah pedal? I have not played with that! 

However, I did then play around with my old project with functioning MIDI wah control (set up as seen in the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video). I saved a copy of the project and then stripped out everything that was not the audio DI track and the AmpliTube-equipped software instrument track. These kept working as expected, and I could even change out the wah pedal in AmpliTube and reassign MIDI control to a different wah pedal (or anything else: as a test, I actually assigned the expression pedal to control the "Middle" knob on the Brit 8000 amp head model, and that worked fine. So that was all good.

I did notice that there is a little icon in the lower left of the AT5 app/plugin, to the right of the main Input meter, that looks like a traditional MIDI jack, and the AT5 manual explains this is the "MIDI message indicator: this icon blinks each time a MIDI message is received by the application." I confirm that I see this flickering (in both the standalone and the plugin) whenever MIDI control seems to be working (regardless of whether it is assigned to anything) when I waggle the expression pedal treadle or click its toggle switch.

Anyway ...

Then I closed out the "new, stripped down project derived from a saved copy of my old, working project" and launched a wholly new project. I checked the "MIDI message indicator" in the AT5 interface, and I noticed it would flicker when I moved the expression pedal! I dragged in a wah, and was able to assign MIDI control! I even then loaded one of my existing AmpliTube presets that includes a wah with pre-assigned MIDI control -- and that worked straight-up as loaded, too!

So, obviously, this is awesome: things are working as expected now, even though they weren't previously -- and I still don't know why. Did, as you suggest, I somehow miss something in my earlier setup attempts? Did my efforts to reset controller configurations to their defaults quietly pay off somewhere without my noticing? Could it have something to do with whether Record Enable or Input Monitoring is selected?

No idea -- but I am going to keep my "working old project" around, just in case this problem re-emerges and I have to go back to that project and user patches saved from it to get things working.

[supanorton]

Good news. All's well that ends well. Happy recording!

[carlaz]

It remains interesting to me that I was able to assign MIDI control to certain parameters of plugins on audio tracks -- generally through the Smart Controls -- but that cannot apparently do that directly to controls within at least the AT5 plugin on an audio track. I mean, it seems like being about to use MIDI interfaces to control parameters on plugins on audio tracks would be a super-useful thing ....

Possibly my earlier efforts to set up MIDI controls of one kind or another for plugins on audio tracks at some point broke or hi-jacked MIDI data that I expected to be going to AT5?

But, as you say: all's well that ends well -- and hopefully stays well! 😅

[carlaz]

I guess I'm necro-bumping this topic, as I seem to have an unexpected new (but related?) issue related to MIDI control of AmpliTube in Logic Pro -- though I could start a new topic if that would be better.

In the meantime, here is the issue ...

In brief, I am having trouble getting my expression pedal to talk directly to AmpliTube 5 within Logic Pro (although it did so before). The expression pedal is setup in a very standard way: using MIDI channel 1, sending CC#11 messages .... In the standalone AmpliTube 5 app, I have no problem; I can assign and unassigned the expression pedal to different controls, etc. I have the MIDI Monitor app installed on my Mac, and it shows messages coming in from the expressional pedal as normal and expected. 

Within Logic Pro, in an instance of the AmpliTube 5 plugin, any pre-existing presets with the expression pedal set up to control wahs or other things show those configurations (e.g., right-clicking on a pre-configured wah shows "Assign MIDI > Wah > Wah: MIDI CC 11"). However, waggling the expression pedal doesn't do anything (although it used to!). Similarly, if I start with a wah-less preset, add a wah, and then right-click to get to "Assign MIDI > Wah > Learn Wah", a message "Waiting for MIDI input ..." pops up, but waggling the expression pedal does nothing. If I have MIDI Activity enabled in Logic's Control Bar/Display, waggling the expression pedal shows nothing in the MIDI In/Out indicators.

So, to this point, it is as if Logic doesn't know about any MIDI messages from the expression pedal (even though such messages continue being registered in the MIDI Monitor app, and can control things in the standalone AmpliTube app at the same time that Logic seems to be ignoring them).

However, I can see that Logic is not completely ignoring the expression pedal, since if in Logic I go to the Smart Controls to access parameters for pretty much any stock or 3rd-party plugin, I find that the expression pedal is already controlling some parameter (usually "Parameter 7"; I've no idea why!) and I can assign Parameter 7 to a wah rocker control in AmpliTube, and then suddenly I am controlling the AmpliTube wah with the expression pedal (even though the formal Assign/Learn function within AmpliTube steadfastly ignores messages from the expression pedal). I can select other controls/parameters within Logic's Smart Controls panels and use the "Learn" button to change what I'm controlling.

So, clearly, the expression pedal is talking to Logic, but no longer directly to AmpliTube? Though some messing around with Logic's Smart Controls does allow the expression pedal to control parameters within AmpliTube, even though the expected MIDI Assign/Learn functions seem dead.

This seems like it might be an AmpliTube issue? Though I'm not sure why it should have ceased working as expected, when it did so previously. I've not made any changes to the overall configuration/settings in Logic. On the other hand, MIDI is mysterious to me, and there could be something in Logic (instead of? or in addition to?) a problem with AmpliTube? Any ideas?

Meanwhile, although I have previously recording "soft wah" (and similar effects) in Logic and AMpliTube using the setup explained in this YouTube video ...

 

... while trying to solve my problems today, if I managed to get a given parameter controlled by the expression pedal to waggle the "soft wahs" in AmpliTube, I found that showing automation in Logic and then switching the track to "Latch" (or "Write") would let me record both audio and automation, so that I can do that and then (switching back to "Read") simply play that back, without the somewhat convoluted set up described in the (otherwise actually very clear and helpful) video.

So that's a nice discovery -- though I remain baffled as to why I have to jump through weird hoops in assigning automation parameters through Logic and the simple MIDI Learn functions of the AmpliTube 5 plugin no longer seem to work (even though the same functionality works as usual in the standalone app).

Any ideas?

[des99]

Read the second post at the top of the thread, it explains succinctly how audio FX plugins *do not receive* MIDI. The *only* way to use MIDI control for something like Amplitube is to use it in the MIDI FX configuration, or to use Logic's controller assignments (smart controls uses the same mechanic) to map an incoming MIDI message directly to a plugin parameter.

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

Within Logic Pro, in an instance of the AmpliTube 5 plugin, any pre-existing presets with the expression pedal set up to control wahs or other things show those configurations (e.g., right-clicking on a pre-configured wah shows "Assign MIDI > Wah > Wah: MIDI CC 11"). However, waggling the expression pedal doesn't do anything (although it used to!).

Because audio FX plugins *do not receive MIDI* in Logic, as per above.

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

Similarly, if I start with a wah-less preset, add a wah, and then right-click to get to "Assign MIDI > Wah > Learn Wah", a message "Waiting for MIDI input ..." pops up, but waggling the expression pedal does nothing.

Same reason. You can't use this mechanic - pretty much all of this is explained above in the thread. Give it a reread, and if there is anything you don't get, I'm happy to clarify.

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

waggling the expression pedal shows nothing in the MIDI In/Out indicators.

Because you've probably already mapped this incoming MIDI message to a plugin parameter via controller assignments, which is why that message is "stolen" and you won't see it arrive at the sequencer (hence, no display in the transport bar).

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

I find that the expression pedal is already controlling some parameter (usually "Parameter 7"; I've no idea why!)

See above. 🙂

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

This seems like it might be an AmpliTube issue? Though I'm not sure why it should have ceased working as expected, when it did so previously. I've not made any changes to the overall configuration/settings in Logic. On the other hand, MIDI is mysterious to me, and there could be something in Logic (instead of? or in addition to?) a problem with AmpliTube? Any ideas?

Everything about this is contained in the thread. MIDI isn't mysterious, but Logic's behaviour can be complex depending on what you want to do, so some of this stuff isn't obvious - which is why this thread exists, really...

[carlaz]

7 hours ago, des99 said:

Read the second post at the top of the thread, it explains succinctly how audio FX plugins *do not receive* MIDI. The *only* way to use MIDI control for something like Amplitube is to use it in the MIDI FX configuration, or to use Logic's controller assignments (smart controls uses the same mechanic) to map an incoming MIDI message directly to a plugin parameter.

Because audio FX plugins *do not receive MIDI* in Logic, as per above.

Same reason. You can't use this mechanic - pretty much all of this is explained above in the thread. Give it a reread, and if there is anything you don't get, I'm happy to clarify.

Because you've probably already mapped this incoming MIDI message to a plugin parameter via controller assignments, which is why that message is "stolen" and you won't see it arrive at the sequencer (hence, no display in the transport bar).

See above. 🙂

Everything about this is contained in the thread. MIDI isn't mysterious, but Logic's behaviour can be complex depending on what you want to do, so some of this stuff isn't obvious - which is why this thread exists, really...

OK: "complex" rather than "mysterious". 😅 I admit that, given my poor understanding of MIDI control in Logic, the two concepts can seem to overlap. 😅 So, I will try to get educated here ....

I"m guessing that I have somehow done as you have said: "already mapped this incoming MIDI message to a plugin parameter via controller assignments" since, as you say, "smart controls uses the same mechanic [Logic's controller assignments]) to map an incoming MIDI message directly to a plugin parameter". I guess (?) this since I used to have MIDI control assigned to certain parameters in my AmpliTube plugin presets, but now they are perhaps "hijacked" by having been mapped to some parameter which is getting them instead (giving me the appearance that my the controls I expect to work do not)

I went to Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Controller Assignments and looked at Expert View, where I saw that the lefthand Zone had various entries, some of which are clearly related to my MIDI keyboard or my iPad, but also a "(No Zone)" zone that contained various "Learned" controls, including "(Smart Control #7)" (ah ha!) and "(Smart Control #7)", and clicking on any of these controls for the "(No Zone)" zone seems to reveal that they are all dealing with a MIDI Input Message from my AXE I/O interface (into which the expression pedal is plugged) for Value Change "B0 0B Lo7" and "Control Change Ch 1, 11, Lo7" -- which definitely looked like the expression pedal.

I deleted these controls, and now when I waggle the expression pedal, Logic displays MIDI In messages for MIDI Ch 1, CC 11 from 1 to 127 (as might be hoped). OK, great. That's something.

As you said in a previous post (I did go back and re-read the thread!): "Either use Logic's controller assignments to learn a MIDI message to a plugin control, or use the plugin in the "MIDI FX" mode, which has a bit more convoluted routing, but now will receive incoming MIDI which you can MIDI learn in the plugin directly."

So, yes, when I create a software instrument track and add AmpliTube as an "AU MIDI-Controlled Effect" instrument, sure enough: waggling the expression pedal will let it control previously configured preset assignments or new MIDI-Learned assignments. (This being -- I now get it -- the basics of the routing also explained in the TheSuperFunAwesomeHappyTimePedalShow video.) 

To learn a bit more about how "use Logic's controller assignments to learn a MIDI message to a plugin control" I went and searched on YouTube, and found various videos talking about mapping controller assignments, though those I watched mostly seemed to be mapping a physical MIDI controller to plugin (or Logic) controls on software instrument tracks, and I have had difficulty figuring how how to map a controller assignment (e.g., from my expression pedal) to a plugin control on an audio track (e.g., a soft wah or whatever in AmpliTube). I generally find myself back in Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Controller Assignments creating new controls for my "No Zone" zone, but I think I lack knowledge about how to ensure that the Controller Assignment Parameter settings (over on the top right of the panel) are the right ones for sending the MIDI Input Messages to the plugin parameter of my choice on the plugin on an audio track.

Could you recommend a video to watch or a web page to read that explains these functions a bit better to me? (Though I feel like I'm closing in on understanding this ....)

 

 

[des99]

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

though those I watched mostly seemed to be mapping a physical MIDI controller to plugin (or Logic) controls on software instrument tracks,

Yes, mapping a controller than sends MIDI messages to Logic, to control plugin parameters - it doesn't matter what type of plugins, it's all the same in this regard.

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

I have had difficulty figuring how how to map a controller assignment (e.g., from my expression pedal) to a plugin control on an audio track (e.g., a soft wah or whatever in AmpliTube)

The manual describes the process, but essentially, enter Learn mode (which is usually Command L,, touch the plugin parameter you want to be controlled via MIDI with your mouse to tell Logic which plugin parameter you are mapping too, and then move your MIDI controller (your footpedal in this case). Now Logic "connects" this incoming MIDI message to that specific plugin parameter, so that moving the pedal will affect the desired plugin parameter.

Remember to leave Learn mode when you're done, otherwise you may start inadvertently learning other MIDI messages to other things.

3 hours ago, carlaz said:

Could you recommend a video to watch or a web page to read that explains these functions a bit better to me?

I mean, I'd recommend this forum personally, the help here is mostly better than some random YouTube video, but it looks like you've already found something that demonstrates how controller assignments work - that should be all you need. There's no need to get into the finer, or wider specifics of the controller assignments and possibilities there, as yours is a very simple case.

Here's the manual on the easy learn procedure:
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/logicpro/ctls71c31855/mac

[carlaz]

Thanks -- that's very helpful.

For AmpliTube 5, I found it was critical to assign automation to a given parameter within the AmpliTube 5 plugin first, before trying to Learn the parameter in the Controller Assignments panel. (If I pre-assigned automation to the parameter within the AT5 plugin, then Cmd-L etc. seemed to know to Learn for that parameter; otherwise, if I merely clicked on a control in the AT5 plugin, Logic usually instead thought I wanted to Learn to control the track panning or something like that).

However, in a stock Logic plugin (e.g., Tape Delay or whatever), I could just click a control, hit Cmd-L, and then waggle the expression pedal to Learn the clicked control.

I guess I need to keep an eye on the Controller Assignments panel to ensure I have not assigned the same control surface (e.g., my expression pedal) to lots of different things!