jreading Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) EDIT: Well, I'm a dummy for not searching or seeing the 10.7.3 thread on this. REALLY hope I will still be able to do patch names and custom bank messages with sysex or cc in the future. ----- The menu option is missing for open environment, but advanced features are enabled and cmd-0 will open the environment. Very WEIRD! Anyone experience this? I've toggled it on/off, restarted Logic and Computer. Worked earlier today and this now applies to all my projects, including master templates. Logic 10.7.3 Edited March 30, 2022 by jreading Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzfilth Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 It's a new feature in 10.7.3. Meant to keep newbs from hurting themselves. I think it's an insult to anyone's intelligence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Hold Option while opening the window menu, and the Environment option reappears. As previously reported here, in the update notes, and in the manual, from 10.7.3 they've made the Environment a "Legacy" feature (which means, it's old, unsupported, and hidden by default, like the Legacy plugins). You can of course still use it. Note: The Environment is a legacy feature and included for compatibility with projects from older versions of Logic Pro. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/logicpro/lgcpf755dc51/mac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreading Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 Strange though, because I was using it earlier this morning with 10.7.3. Just decided to stop showing. Does this mean logic will eventually no longer support external midi instruments? That's super disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 No, Logic will not stop being a MIDI sequencer. These days though there are other ways of handling MIDI instruments, that, unlike the environment, are latency compensated and support MIDI timestamping for lower jitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreading Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 Custom bank messages, patch names, and port mapping will hopefully stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Well, custom bank messages and bank names have always been terrible (not much development there since Logic 2.x!), and port mapping has coming into the arrange page now... I think bit by bit some of those things you could only do in the Environment will get modernised and placed elsewhere - for example, I'd like to see a much better custom bank message and patch names interface in the External Instrument plugin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreading Posted March 30, 2022 Author Share Posted March 30, 2022 Well, custom bank messages and bank names have always been terrible (not much development there since Logic 2.x!), and port mapping has coming into the arrange page now... I think bit by bit some of those things you could only do in the Environment will get modernised and placed elsewhere - for example, I'd like to see a much better custom bank message and patch names interface in the External Instrument plugin... I can live with that. I use the external instrument plugin often to get access the midi plugins. I really hope it's easily templated if it went that route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenCameNow Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 The Option > Window > Open Environment has been completely removed in 10.7.4. It slowed me down today because I couldn't remember the key command to get into the Environment so I had to search and finally find this forum. Another insult from Apple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 24 minutes ago, thencamenow said: The Option > Window > Open Environment has been completely removed in 10.7.4. As des99 stated earlier you can hold down the Option key and click the Window menu to choose Open MIDI Environment. This was most likely done to avoid bewildering and scaring newer Logic users who may be exploring all the Logic windows, and also to make sure they don't "break" anything - the same way you have to hold down Option in the Finder when clicking the Go menu if you want to access the user library. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenCameNow Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 But like I said, Option > Window > Open Environment is no longer available in 10.7.4 Unless one knows the key command, it's like the Environment no longer exists. I feel sorry for new users who will never have the joy (pain) of using the Environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, thencamenow said: Option > Window > Open Environment is no longer available in 10.7.4 It works as expected here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 The Environment also still has a section in the manual, so new users keen to learn about Logic and that read the docs can still discover it that way, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenCameNow Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Doesn't work here. hmmmm. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, thencamenow said: Doesn't work here. hmmmm. ... You hold down the Option key on your keyboard first, then you click the Window menu? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenCameNow Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Yup. One thing changes but Open Environment doesn't appear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, thencamenow said: One thing changes but Open Environment doesn't appear. Just for the sake of clarity, and because I'm assuming we should all experience the same behavior: If you: Click the Window menu, Press and hold down Option, then you will NOT see it. However if you: Press and hold down Option, While holding down Option, click the Window menu, then you WILL see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenCameNow Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) omg thanks ! Edited September 9, 2022 by thencamenow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, thencamenow said: omg I take it it's working the same on your machine? 😅 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Yep - it's the same concept as other legacy features in Logic, for example the legacy plugins - you hold down the modifier, *then* click to open the menu, and the legacy items are now shown in the menu and are accessible - it's consistent in that regard. Edited September 9, 2022 by des99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Just now, des99 said: it's consistent in that regard. On the other hand it's not consistent with the "Go" menu behavior in the Finder, where you can press Option while the menu is already open to display the Library. 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 (edited) Indeed - I meant consistent in terms of how Logic implements accessing it's legacy features, not how other apps work... Edited September 9, 2022 by des99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThenCameNow Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 Right. Those little details. Damn them. 🤪 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, des99 said: I meant consistent in terms of how Logic implements accessing it's legacy features, not how other apps work... Oh no I know, I understand what you said. I guess I'm a sucker for consistency across the board: I wish Logic's interface would be consistent with the behavior I'm experiencing on the Mac as a whole, in other apps, but I understand that sometimes it may not be possible (or too complicated) for the devs to achieve this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleamon Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, David Nahmani said: Oh no I know, I understand what you said. I guess I'm a sucker for consistency across the board: I wish Logic's interface would be consistent with the behavior I'm experiencing on the Mac as a whole, in other apps, but I understand that sometimes it may not be possible (or too complicated) for the devs to achieve this. FYI: in 10.5 it's always visible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, cleamon said: FYI: in 10.5 it's always visible. Yes the hiding of the MIDI Environment is a recent effort from Apple. 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, cleamon said: FYI: in 10.5 it's always visible. Also true for Logic 1.x. And 2.x through 10.5! 😝 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 1 hour ago, cleamon said: FYI: in 10.5 it's always visible. FYI: It has been removed in 10.7.3. 10.7.2 still shows the menu entry without pressing any modifier key 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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