Amp or Plug-In?

[Little Fat Bloke]

Hi all. Just throwing this out there. What is the general view regarding amp simulators?

Most of the stuff I write is guitar-based but I just can't seem to get a decent sound from Logic's plugins. To this end I'm thinking of a small combo/practise amp to use and I'm looking for ideas.

Like most of us I only have a little bedroom set-up so I don't want some brain-crushingly loud amp and cab, just a little 20watt Peavey or Fender that I can mic up. The Fender Princeton looks good (but a little pricey) and I know both Marshall and Peavey make some decent combos, so any ideas, chaps? As ever, all suggestions are appreciated.

[David Nahmani]

Amp modeling has come a long, long way. I say give it a good try, and don't expect to get a guitar amp sound from your studio monitors, but instead expect to get the sound of a recording of a guitar amp through a mic. 

What kind of sounds are you after? Have you played with Logic's guitar amp designer? 

I believe that @triplets prefers the legacy "Guitar Amp Pro" plug-in, which you can access by Option-clicking an Audio FX plug-in insert and choosing Legacy > Guitar Amp Pro. 

Then there are a LOT of 3rd party plug-in options as well. 

[BCProject]

What David said. I think what throws off many guitarists getting into amp sims is the lack of the visceral thump-in-your-chest, pant-flapping feel of a loud amp-in-a-room. Modern amp sims can sound fantastic in a mix but, outside of a purpose-built live-rig setup, they don't replicate the feel of playing a cranked amp. 

[Little Fat Bloke]

Hi

I think it's because first and foremost I am a musician, a guitarist: I've spent all my working life with a guitar in my hand. I'm retired now and just getting into home recording so plug-ins, amp simulators and so on is all new territory to me.

The smell of the valves warming down after a hot, sweaty gig somewhere was like heaven to me. But times change and we move on.

I still think some of the plug-ins in Logic are amongst the best anywhere (the guitar and bass amps are stunning), but I like the whole feel of just plugging my guitar into an amp and playing whatever comes into my head. To this end I bought a Fender Princeton 112 and I mic it up to get the sound I want.

 

Thanks for your response.

[Steve Kudlacek]

In my experience, amp modeling is usually taken too far. You can’t expect to plug-in your semi-hollow with Burstbuckers into a Mac and drive the output to the front of room and monitors like you would with a normal live rig. This may work well in a studio, but I think you will find you have to visit the basics of both analog and digital domains if you want to achieve “that sound”.

First, in modeling, a DI signal is dramatically impacted by the type of guitar and pickups employed. What may work live, in a purely analog domain, does not necessarily translate to the digital domain. Your guitar may be really “hot” in analog, but flubs-out in DI. It is not uncommon that I EQ a DI source when modeling because it has either too many unnecessary frequencies, and is therefore throwing-off the modeled amp, or not enough, which fails to push the modeled amp properly.

In my home studio, I employ a few different guitars that are designed to use with an amp modeler. They are all solid body, single coil guitars. And I usually employ an EQ, pre-amp, to tweak the source even more.

Second, amp modeling IS NOT the same as speaker cabinet modeling. If your live rig is a combo Vox AC30 with Celestion Blue Alnicos, you can certainly try to employ a modeled amp and modeled speaker cabinet, but you will likely find the output to be less than satisfactory. Modeled speaker cabinets may work well in the studio, of course after the tracking engineer has tweaked the heck out of your signal, but live is a completely different scenario.

I found the best way to model in a live setting is to first employ a guitar that works well at driving a modeled amp. You can add an EQ pedal between the guitar and the amp input or one in your modeler, before the amp. This can fix a not so great DI guitar. But then, employ a solid state amp, after the modeled amp, with the speakers you would normally use live. The solid state amp should not add color but simply drive the output from the modeled amp. In the example above, a Fender FM100 (combo 100w amp) loaded with Celestion Blue Alnicos would be more amp and cabinet than you would need on stage. You get the pant-rattling sound you loved from your AC-30, without the tube amp cost and temperament…

[Little Fat Bloke]

Yeah, I'm with you - pretty much. I find it easier to get a nice punchy sound with my Les Paul than I do with my Strat (obviously because of the single coils), even mic'ed up the Strat sounds very thin in comparison.

But having said that, if I'm playing lead solos the Strat cuts through superbly whilst the humbuckers can sometimes be a bit too much. 

Ah, the trials and tribulations of home recording!

[Steve Kudlacek]

Interesting!  That makes sense. Guessing the Les Paul has humbuckers, a broad frequency range, while the Strat is more upper-mid focused. That’s really the difference between my two DI guitars as well.

And yes, the journey is worth the trial!

Cheers!

[deckard1]

For amp modeling, this was just released. Uses AI technology apparently. There's a free version too.

[Little Fat Bloke]

I think I've seen this advertised somewhere. It sounds pretty good from what I've heard.