Logic plays delay tails out of pitch on first playback only

[orangefridge]

Hi all,

This is a weird glitch that's been going on for a few versions with me.

When I play my track for the first time my delay tails start really low in pitch and have the tape speed up sound. When I play the same area again it works as intended.

This happens mainly with Soundtoys Echoboy / Echoboy Jr and H-Delay which are my 3 most used. Changing delay doesn't help. It's annoying as it gets bounced with it sometimes and always have to check. It's been happening on at least the last 3 Logic updates.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

[fisherking]

same experience (sometimes) using the valhalla delay. not sure what it is (definitely something in logic),

i just play thru a song where that happens before bouncing (i have to do that when i use output's movement (multi-fx) plugin as well, or it doesn't work correctly). an inconvenience (but a small one).

[linusminus]

I have this issue as well—even created a thread on it a while ago! It's not too bad but it's made me start letting the entire play before I bounce anything important to make sure it's all correct. It can be annoying if you open a project file with the sole purpose of bouncing it. I know it only happens the first time the delay is used, but my projects file often end up complex I'm not taking my chances. There could be delay sends I've forgotten about towards the end!

Here's what Valhalla had to say about it when I emailed them.

Quote

Hi Linus,

 

This is an issue with Logic, not ValhallaDelay. You can duplicate the behavior with Sampler in Logic and a 1/4-not woodblock part (or even with Klopfgeist); the first two 1/4-notes will be out of time and then settle into place. This behaviour has ben in Logic for years, so writing to Apple support may help shake that tree.

 

Thanks,

don

 

I wonder, does @David Nahmani have anything to say in regards to this? Sorry for tagging you if it isn't meant for this sort of thing.

[linusminus]

Wanted to add that it happens for me with all of Valhalla's plugins; Shimmer and VVV too, although it's not too obvious with the latter.

[orangefridge]

Glad that it's not just me!

Seems Logic need's to 'trigger' the initial settings on first playback.

Worrying thing is that is could also be happening to other plugins such as compressors which will be far less noticeable. I do also experience when I stop playback in the middle of a reverb tail mid song and bounce the song it will sometimes play the end of the reverb tail at the start of the bounce  😂

[linusminus]

12 minutes ago, orangefridge said:

Glad that it's not just me!

Seems Logic need's to 'trigger' the initial settings on first playback.

Worrying thing is that is could also be happening to other plugins such as compressors which will be far less noticeable. I do also experience when I stop playback in the middle of a reverb tail mid song and bounce the song it will sometimes play the end of the reverb tail at the start of the bounce  😂

It's stressful, isn't it! Perhaps it's wise to always play through the entire song before any bounce.

[David Nahmani]

On 11/2/2022 at 10:05 AM, linusminus said:

You can duplicate the behavior with Sampler in Logic and a 1/4-not woodblock part (or even with Klopfgeist); the first two 1/4-notes will be out of time and then settle into place.

So I just tried this and cannot reproduce this here in Klopfgeist. Anyone able to reproduce this? 

[linusminus]

32 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

So I just tried this and cannot reproduce this here in Klopfgeist. Anyone able to reproduce this? 

I couldn't reproduce it with Klopfgeist like he mentioned, but here's an export of a newly opened project. The second note is after the echo has "adjusted" itself. It's Valhalla Delay.

On a different note, the loading times of my projects have been really long this morning and sometimes even opens with all external plugins disabled. Do you know what that could be? Restarted my laptop and it still acts oddly. It took several minutes just to reopen this one with just two tracks. It just stays at this forever 😩

EDIT: Alright, I reconnected my Element 24 and it works better now! How odd 😅

Edited November 3, 2022 by linusminus

[David Nahmani]

18 minutes ago, linusminus said:

here's an export of a newly opened project. The second note is after the echo has "adjusted" itself. It's Valhalla Delay.

Could you attach that project, or one that reproduces the issue here? I haven't been able to reproduce it so far.

[linusminus]

32 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Could you attach that project, or one that reproduces the issue here? I haven't been able to reproduce it so far.

I couldn't get it to work (as in fail 😆) at first but it seems like it appears when you have TWO Valhalla/Soundtoys delays or reverbs in the same project file?! Haven't tried yet whether they have to be of different values. 

Hope you have VDelay and Shimmer!

Valhalla Delay.logicx.zip

[David Nahmani]

24 minutes ago, linusminus said:

I couldn't get it to work (as in fail 😆) at first but it seems like it appears when you have TWO Valhalla/Soundtoys delays or reverbs in the same project file?! Haven't tried yet whether they have to be of different values. 

Hope you have VDelay and Shimmer!

Interesting: I did not have Shimmer installed here and I tried your project and couldn't reproduce. 

Then I installed a demo of Shimmer and now I could reproduce the issue. 

[linusminus]

24 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Interesting: I did not have Shimmer installed here and I tried your project and couldn't reproduce. 

Then I installed a demo of Shimmer and now I could reproduce the issue. 

Very strange. I didn't try yet, but feel like it should be possible to recreate with two different VDelay instances too. Maybe if they're set to different sync/ms values. Reason being it happens to pretty much all of my projects, Shimmer or not.

Edited November 3, 2022 by linusminus

[fisherking]

is it just valhalla? anyone using output's movement fx?

both need a playthrough to work correctly. annoying but am used to it.

[linusminus]

Just now, fisherking said:

is it just valhalla? anyone using output's movement fx?

both need a playthrough to work correctly. annoying but am used to it.

I didn't try reproducing it with other plugins yet, but it feels that should be the case. OP had issues with Echoboy and H-Delay.

Perhaps it's an issue with most (3rd party) time-based effects?

[linusminus]

7 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Interesting: I did not have Shimmer installed here and I tried your project and couldn't reproduce. 

Then I installed a demo of Shimmer and now I could reproduce the issue. 

I'm doing some testing now and I really can't figure out what's going on. I seem to be able to reproduce it most of the time if I completely quit Logic and open the project file—even with a single track. Oftentimes it almost sounds like the note is "fading in", maybe not completely unlike what Don described in his message.

[fisherking]

shaperbox 3 is doing this as well!...

[linusminus]

1 minute ago, fisherking said:

shaperbox 3 is doing this as well!...

Definitely something Logic related then!

[fisherking]

i reported it on the OS feedback app (worth a shot; i've reported logic issues there before), and ALSO on the logic feedback page. 

[Paul Keeler]

This is still a problem. I have had to rebounce several projects recently as I had missed the wierd pitched down echos. It would be great if this was fixed as it's driving me nuts!

[envlpx]

I'm having this problem as well with Logic and EchoBoy Jr. 😞 I'm trying to replace EchoBoy with Replika and it seems to fix the problem.

[linusminus]

Weird! I'm having the issue with pretty much all my delay and reverb plugins. At this point I've made a habit of always playing through the entire track prior to exporting. Sucks but it is what it is.

[orangefridge]

On 11/6/2023 at 3:07 PM, envlpx said:

I'm having this problem as well with Logic and EchoBoy Jr. 😞 I'm trying to replace EchoBoy with Replika and it seems to fix the problem.

It seems to be the first playback of any delay I’ve used 3rd party after opening a session. It doesn’t produce the weird glitch when you open the plug-in and play for the first time. Only when logic is fully closed and reopened and only on the first delay instance. So annoying but at this point I’m used to it. Do miss it every now and then.