MattLeschuck Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 I noticed the usual midi fx drop down isn't an option when using Drum Machine Designer. I was hoping to use Reason's player devices with it and was wondering if there is a way to get this to work (beat map in particular). I noticed you can add it to each individual piece but not the kit as a whole. Any info is appreciated here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Drum Machine Designer is not an instrument, it's a track stack that controls instruments on subtracks. Click the little ">" symbol in front of its track icon in the track header and you can access the subtracks, where you can use MIDI FX for each instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattLeschuck Posted February 7, 2023 Author Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, David Nahmani said: Drum Machine Designer is not an instrument, it's a track stack that controls instruments on subtracks. Click the little ">" symbol in front of its track icon in the track header and you can access the subtracks, where you can use MIDI FX for each instrument. Got it and thanks for the reply. Unfortunately adding 10+ copies of the same player device would be a pain, especially when tweaking. I was hoping to see if there was a way to add it to "one" track to control the entire kit (similar to how i do when using a Reason drum sequencer / sampler). Edited February 7, 2023 by MattLeschuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Unfortunately no, there's no way to do that. 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, David Nahmani said: Unfortunately no, there's no way to do that. 😞 Theoretically it should be possible to go the MIDI FX -> External Instrument -> IAC Bus -> DMD main track way, no? Didn't try though Edited February 7, 2023 by polanoid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 43 minutes ago, polanoid said: Theoretically it should be possible to go the MIDI FX -> External Instrument -> IAC Bus -> DMD main track way, no? Didn't try though Yes, I suppose it should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 19 hours ago, David Nahmani said: Drum Machine Designer is not an instrument, it's a track stack that controls instruments on subtracks. Thinking a bit more about this, maybe this is just an oversight by Apple? Summing Stack main tracks do process MIDI (at least they pass it to their sub tracks, in the DMD case they even re-map the notes), so it seems they should have MIDI FX slots, at least if they contains only (or at least one) software instrument track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 It's sort of an oversight, but also kind of hamstrung by what actual environment objects are being used under the covers to represent summing stacks. In theory what you're saying is correct, why not allow it there, but really they would have to go deep and modify environment objects to do it. It will probably never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Yes from a user point of view it would make sense to have MIDI FX plug-ins on the main track of a summing track stack, but from a developer point of view this may be more complex that it first appears. For example, what happens to the MIDI FX plug-ins when you flatten the stack? Yes from a user point of view it would make sense to have MIDI FX plug-ins on the main track of a summing track stack, but from a developer point of view this may be more complex that it first appears. For example, what happens to the MIDI FX plug-ins when you flatten the stack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: For example, what happens to the MIDI FX plug-ins when you flatten the stack? The same that happens to the Audio FX plug-ins when I flatten the stack - gone 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, polanoid said: The same that happens to the Audio FX plug-ins when I flatten the stack - gone 😉 No, they stay there. Flattening a summing stack should not change the sound of your mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: No, they stay there. Flattening a summing stack should not change the sound of your mix. OK then the MIDI FX can stay as well (doing nothing, but giving the user the opportunity to copy or move the MIDI FX to another channel, thus preventing data loss) Edited February 7, 2023 by polanoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, Dewdman42 said: but really they would have to go deep and modify environment objects to do it As the environment objects are mere shells for the audio channel strips (you can easily exchange an environment object's channel strip by another one), maybe they wouldn't have to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, polanoid said: OK then the MIDI FX can stay as well (doing nothing, but giving the user the opportunity to copy or move the MIDI FX to another channel, thus preventing data loss) Sure that could work, but beware the long list of Logic users who'd complain that they flattened their summing stack and now their synth sounds completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: Sure that could work, but beware the long list of Logic users who'd complain that they flattened their summing stack and now their synth sounds completely different. They are no longer stacked in a summing stack, so they would sound different anyway after flattening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Let's say you have a summing stack patch with a MIDI FX. You play it, it sounds great, but you want to move the MIDI regions on the subtracks so that for example they play at a different octave. Now all of a sudden, the patch sounds completely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 But the patch would sound completely different anyway if you move the MIDI region from the summing track to one of the sub tracks, because on the summing track the MIDI region will trigger all contained software instruments simultaneously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 Also keep in mind that the use of Auxes to play MIDI is not limited to summing track stacks. Just now, polanoid said: But the patch would sound completely different anyway if you move the MIDI region from the summing track to one of the sub tracks, because on the summing track the MIDI region will trigger all contained software instruments simultaneously Yes so you would copy it on both subtracks and change the octave of one of them, or the velocity, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, David Nahmani said: Yes so you would copy it on both subtracks and change the octave of one of them, or the velocity, etc... I would think it would be pretty transparent to the user that MIDI is no longer processed by MIDI FX on the summing track when the region resides on a sub track... 2 minutes ago, David Nahmani said: Also keep in mind that the use of Auxes to play MIDI is not limited to summing track stacks. Hm which other Auxes do play MIDI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, polanoid said: As the environment objects are mere shells for the audio channel strips (you can easily exchange an environment object's channel strip by another one), maybe they wouldn't have to I think it's the other way around....the GUI is a mere shell around the environment object, but still the point remains, it would involve significant development effort to integrate midi fx into the objects used for summing stacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, Dewdman42 said: but still the point remains, it would involve significant development effort to integrate midi fx into the objects used for summing stacks. I wonder how you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 (edited) also keep in mind the separation between tracks and mixer. The midifx reside in the mixer objects. Whatever happens in the tracks with regions, etc...all of that is totally seperate from the limitation we are talking about, and could easily be managed, I don't see that as difficult or relevant. The problem is more that summing stacks are using simple mix busses to accomplish what they do, they are not using a complete instrument mixer strip object. They are completely different. Right now the midi coming into a summing stack can simply be each echo'd to each of the instrument channel objects inside the stack..nothing more. Trying to insert midi processing there is simply outside the capabilities of how the enviornment objects currently work together. As we know, instrument channel objects sandbox midi inside themselves.... 2 minutes ago, polanoid said: I wonder how you know... because I'm a genius didn't you know? Edited February 7, 2023 by Dewdman42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted February 7, 2023 Share Posted February 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Dewdman42 said: because I'm a genius didn't you know? yeah right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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