AMD Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Hi everyone. I've been playing with Playbox from Native instruments and it sounds great, but I can't figure out how to get some of the presets to sync to my DAW tempo, or vice versa and I'm hoping someone can help. Maybe the issue is the time signature? To give you an example: the Caverns preset is a rhythmic one. I recorded a few notes into a new Logic project, which defaults to 4/4, 120bpm. I held and released the notes in time with the rhythm of the preset. To get the 'phrase' to loop smoothly, it comes out at 6 and a half bars, but when I tun the metronome on, it's obviously completely out of time. I'm hearing a nice slow tempo, but the metronome is flying along. The first file sounds like 8 bars at a nice slow tempo to me. The second one is what happens when I turn the metronome on at 120bpm. If I slow the tempo of the project down, the rhythm of the preset slows down too, so that doesn't seem to be the answer. How do I deal with this? Do I need to change the time signature? If so, to what? Any help much appreciated! Thanks! Playbox 1.mp3 Playbox 2.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I don't know anything about that particular instrument, or whether it supports syncing to the host tempo. Does it come with a manual that might explain this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMD Posted July 8, 2023 Author Share Posted July 8, 2023 Hi des99. There is no sync button as such, but all the modulators can be set to note values. They are all set at 1/4 notes at the moment, but as soon as I adjust any of them I lose the rhythm of the original sound, which I'd like to keep. To get the phrase to loop, I need to set the locators at 6 and half bars in a 4/4 project at 120bpm, so I was thinking it might be the time sig that needs changing, but I'm useless with those sort of things, so I haven't been able to work it out 😖 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 It appears synced to me but it certainly isn't 4/4. Give me a few minutes... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 It's 11/8. I perceive it as 4/4 + 3/8 but this might feel different for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMD Posted July 8, 2023 Author Share Posted July 8, 2023 Hi gacki, thanks for your reply. in the file above without a click, I can count a slow 4 for each note. I’m not at home at the moment, but I’ll try changing the sig to 11/8 and see how it sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) You can either do it as 11/8 at 120 BPM or 11/16 at 60 BPM. When you do the latter the whole thing feels like a 3/4 with 1/16 missing. I'll attach two projects. Just drop your first file onto the track and it will sync perfectly. Edit: I've added a "Version 2" of the 11/16 project that has a different click resolution which might be closer to how you "feel" it. Playbox 11:16.logicx.zip Playbox 11:8.logicx.zip Playbox 11:16 Version 2.logicx.zip Edited July 8, 2023 by gacki additions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMD Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Hi gacki. Thanks so much for taking the time to make those files. I'm not sure I can get my head around those time sigs just yet. I probably should have posted this file originally. I know the quantise settings aren't correct as I just penciled the notes in, but it's as close to the way I hear it in my head. I realise that might not help at all though! 🙃 Playbox.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Here's my interpretation of the slow 4ths with 16th pulse variant: Playbox 11_16.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMD Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Sounds great gacki! Did you use 11/8 for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 I used 11/8 with 120 BPM but interpreted it half time; using 60 BPM and 11/16 would have basically sounded the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMD Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 It really sounds great to me 😊 I find it very difficult to know where I am with that time signature, but I’ll practice with it and see how it goes. Did you alter the original file, or does it just sound different with the groove you have under it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gacki Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 14 minutes ago, AMD said: Did you alter the original file, or does it just sound different with the groove you have under it? It is exactly the original file, unaltered (there is some reverb on everything to make it gel better). Of course the added bass might put it into a completely different harmonic context than what you originally heard for yourself. 20 minutes ago, AMD said: I find it very difficult to know where I am with that time signature, but I’ll practice with it and see how it goes. In case you're not familiar with odd time signatures here are a couple of things to "groove along": Dave Brubeck - Take Five (5/4) Peter Gabriel - Solsbury Hill (mostly in 7/4) Sting: Seven Days (5/4) Mahavishnu Orchestra: Celestial Terrestrial Commuters (19/16 although often notated als 19/8 - to me it sounds like 4/4 + 3/16) Bela Bartok's "Mikrokosmos" has two nice and comparatively easy compositions in book 4: Bulgarian Rhythm 1 (7/8) and Bulgarian Rhythm 2 (5/8). Generally I find it helpful to "finding the groove" to mentally accept that the typical "even" division of a complete measure doesn't apply here and that the "strange" division that almost feels like "skipping" is indeed correct. After a while it should fall into place then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMD Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 Incredible how your groove makes it sound! Thanks for those suggestions. I’m familiar with some of them already, but never paid much attention to the time sigs before. I’ve been trying to make music for such a long time, you’d think I’d have the hang of this stuff by now! A lifetime of listening to dance music has me stuck in a 4/4 rhythm 😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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