Soundsauca Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 Hi there, A few months ago I upgraded from an 2017 MBP to a Mac Studio M1. I didn't use it immediately for music as it was bought primarily for video editing. Recently I've had the chance to load my plugins on it and for the most part things are fine. However I have noticed that some plugins appear to suffer from a GUI freeze that also affects Logic itself. It doesn't last long. In fact it can go almost unnoticed (hence I didn't!). Now I see it, I can't "un-see" it. I tried to rule things out such as audio drivers etc, however it occurs even on the internal audio out. I don't think it's all plugins but I've noticed it in Korgs Modwave, some Arturia synths to name a few. They're all 3rd party so I guess there's that. I was initially concerned it was the Mac, but now I'm not so sure. As a test I loaded up Reason 12 (latest M1/M2 version) and loaded the equivalent in VST. I played for quite some time and didn't see this happening. Unfortunately I haven't updated my Ableton Suite to run natively so I can't confirm for sure if it's an AU issue or a Logic issue, or some sort of Metal/Open GL issue. Modwave for instance, is dependant on Metal or OpenGL so maybe that has some influence. The other thing that happens is that the mouse input disappears upon using certain plugin GUI controls. I appreciate that these issues may be due to the architectural changes and a multitude of software updates compared to my Macbook. It's just a little disconcerting that my 6 year old laptop runs things at times more smoothly. Less CPU for sure, but smoother yes! I mean is this to be expected, or is there some hardware issue at play? I'm relatively sure it isn't but thought I'd put it out there. Thanks a lot for reading my poorly constructed brain dump, but I figured this would be a good place to ask for any advice. Best, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) Yes, many of us have seen this, or get it frequently, including myself - commonly when turning a knob on a plugin and it kinda "sticks" for a second or so before continuing. Best report it to Apple, although I'm sure they already know about it. I'm not sure whether this is due to some plugins not running well isolated, or something inherent in the AUHostingService that runs the plugins on Apple silicon*, and I know that Apple have given out guidance as to fix common problems to developers, so hopefully things will improve. But we have to live with it for now, on plugins that are affected. I'm wondering whether it's worth listing plugins that people have noticed this problem on, and ones that seem unaffected, as a way of figuring out what's problematic? *You shouldn't see this issue on non-AU plugins, or with hosts that still load the plugins directly, rather than get MacOS to run them... (including Logic running under Rosetta.) Edited July 22, 2023 by des99 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundsauca Posted July 22, 2023 Author Share Posted July 22, 2023 Ah right ok. Thanks for the information. So it's a known quantity. Yes I didn't see anything wrong in the vsts in Reason, however I only have Reason for the instruments these days but I digress. I did move over an old version of Logic (10.5.1) to try and run some old plugins, but I haven't spent enough time with this to be sure. It's not a big deal now I know what it is. I'm sure as you say over time things will improve. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Soundsauca said: I did move over an old version of Logic (10.5.1) to try and run some old plugins, but I haven't spent enough time with this to be sure. These old versions are basically Intel-only, and don't suffer the issue, as they don't run Apple silicon native, and they load the plugins directly, rather than isolated under macOS. Edited July 22, 2023 by des99 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundsauca Posted July 22, 2023 Author Share Posted July 22, 2023 I'm beginning to understand. So effectively the new Logic sandboxes and loads plugins "externally". This may well be the reason I cannot get VStation running. I know it's not supported anymore, but I'm a sucker for punishment and have been trying every which way to get all my older plugs working in some way. I had a brainwave to use Plugin Guru's Unify plugin to try and authorise VStation. I got further than Logic crashing (just about!) and got the message (attached). So far I haven't lowered the security settings as I'm not sure what the consequences could be and how I could revert the security if it doesn't work out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 22, 2023 Share Posted July 22, 2023 24 minutes ago, Soundsauca said: So effectively the new Logic sandboxes and loads plugins "externally". Yes. When running Logic natively, any native plugins you load are passed to the macOS service "AUHostingService", a native service, and the plugins are running inside that, isolated from Logic. (This is also why Melodyne's ARA doesn't work). When you run an Intel plugin under Logic running natively, it instead runs in "AUHostingCompatibilityService", which is running under Rosetta, so your Intel-only plugins can also be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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