Aggressive string libraries

[lewisinkpress]

I am looking for a new string library, where I can get some more aggressive sounds -- a la the video linked here:  

Any thoughts are most welcome!  thanks

 

 

[rAC]

To me that sounds like the strings have had a lot of EQ applied to them. I think you could probably get there with most string libraries that have a tremolo sample and a pizzicato sample with close miking eg EW’s Strings.

[lewisinkpress]

thanks for the response!

 

[emanuel_froes]

Majestica. 

 

Heavyocity Foundations Staccato Strings , and Brass as well

 

Nucleus Lite can be VERY agressive. 

 

It is all about compression in the right moment.

[Sunset]

I found that you can create some edge using some slight distortion/overdrive on the individual tracks of (string) instruments. You can group to an AUX as long the effect is subtle, which would be sufficient here.

You can trigger the effect with the amount of expression (see attachment) of the software intrument. The more expression, the more the distortion effect is fed.  It´s not like using a metal distortion in traditional ways or such, rather adding some overtones with subtle tube simulation. Maybe it´s worth to give the volume parameter inside (!) the instruments player a shot also, triggering the amount of distortion...You will get a feel for it.

Maybe this approach can lead to a more relative view regarding the quest for dedicated sound properties of single Orchestral Libs in case of aiming at really subtle tone nuances only. You can do a lot with reverbs, for instance, if the foundation is a pretty dry sound (which some complain). The industry will have nothing against the approach owning every single lib out there 😉.

Distortion plus compression in the chain gives some more options, too. Try experimenting with the attack time of around 30-50 ms of the compressor, to leave the initial phase of instruments sounds untouched and thus maintaining the natural dynamic which supports the impression of a harder "attack". -> And, yes, Of course, the order of the effects can lead to different results, too...

Edited October 5, 2023 by Byhxx

[emanuel_froes]

Yes, you can boost the high mids of the basses as well

7 hours ago, Byhxx said:

I found that you can create some edge using some slight distortion/overdrive on the individual tracks of (string) instruments. You can group to an AUX as long the effect is subtle, which would be sufficient here.

You can trigger the effect with the amount of expression (see attachment) of the software intrument. The more expression, the more the distortion effect is fed.  It´s not like using a metal distortion in traditional ways or such, rather adding some overtones with subtle tube simulation. Maybe it´s worth to give the volume parameter inside (!) the instruments player a shot also, triggering the amount of distortion...You will get a feel for it.

Maybe this approach can lead to a more relative view regarding the quest for dedicated sound properties of single Orchestral Libs in case of aiming at really subtle tone nuances only. You can do a lot with reverbs, for instance, if the foundation is a pretty dry sound (which some complain). The industry will have nothing against the approach owning every single lib out there 😉.

Distortion plus compression in the chain gives some more options, too. Try experimenting with the attack time of around 30-50 ms of the compressor, to leave the initial phase of instruments sounds untouched and thus maintaining the natural dynamic which supports the impression of a harder "attack". -> And, yes, Of course, the order of the effects can lead to different results, too...

Distortion is a cool trick for the tool box, but i guess it is the hardest to set right, and will probably have to automate a lot.

Edited October 5, 2023 by emanuel_froes

[emanuel_froes]

23 hours ago, emanuel_froes said:

Majestica. 

 

Heavyocity Foundations Staccato Strings , and Brass as well

 

Nucleus Lite can be VERY agressive. 

 

It is all about compression in the right moment.

* FOundations is free, Nucleus cheap, Majestica goes on sales frequently

My thing with 8Dio now is the brightness, every patch have to adjust a bit. But they EQ is very good, and the Vitamin by Waves does the job. You also can play EW strings from Hollywood Orchestrator and match the tone, because tone EW got super good.

* FOundations is free, Nucleus cheap, Majestica goes on sales frequently

My thing with 8Dio now is the brightness, every I patch have to adjust a bit. But they EQ is very good, and the Vitamin by Waves does the job. You also can play EW strings from Hollywood Orchestrator and match the tone, because tone EW got super good.

[Sunset]

You can workout an AUX channel with distortion and taming it a bit by implementing a Gain PlugIn in front for lowering the input gain of pedalboard stomp boxes, which seem to be pretty hot.

I personally did not dive into all the stock options Logic holds, like tube saturation/distortion or Tape Saturation, which adds frequencies, too.

Kind of (3rd party??) tube saturation will do the trick best, which could be pushed a little by higher levels

So there´s a some helpful parameters out there to work with:

- reverb (softens the sound, espescially short rev times), -> dryer strings yield more attack (and aggressiveness).

- compressor with higher attack values (30-50ms), leaves the attack alone and makes the sound bigger in the quasi static phase of a string sound

- distortion (tube saturation) adds harshness and gives more "edge". you control it dynamically via the expression parameter to automate the performance kind of real life players.

-EQ (hi mids and highs) feature string noise and attack sounds.

-> I would check that before investing into several libs.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Byhxx

[emanuel_froes]

14 minutes ago, Byhxx said:

You can workout an AUX channel with distortion and taming it a bit by implementing a Gain PlugIn in front for lowering the input gain of pedalboard stomp boxes, which seem to be pretty hot.

I personally did not dive into all the stock options Logic holds, like distortion or Tape Saturation, which adds frequencies, too.

Kind of (3rd party) tube saturation will do the trick best, which could be pushed a little by higher levels

yes it is good. I will test this to automate the attack then 

[Sunset]

I created a Logic File for our discussion. see attached.

It covers expression curves, articulation, layering 2 string sounds (Vln1: attacked sustain + Vln2: pizz support), Aux Bus FX (parallel distortion), eq, compressor, reverb and (little) mastering (-0.5 dB)

I could imagine, that you get the Psycho film music culmination point out of this setup exaggerating the distortion on short and even higher notes even more with the stock sounds...

When using the Violins like this in a mix with other instruments the distortion effect might be covered a bit, while keeping the prominent character of violins. It´s really about nuances. Sometimes - you will know that - this extra distortion concept happens to a bass guitar sound (i.e. using SansAmp et al) to make it rather more transparent and pushing through a mix, than really intending to let your audience hear the sizzeling distortion effect.

String_Harshness_LPX_Forum.zip

Edited October 6, 2023 by Byhxx

[emanuel_froes]

22 hours ago, Byhxx said:

I created a Logic File for our discussion. see attached.

It covers expression curves, articulation, layering 2 string sounds (Vln1: attacked sustain + Vln2: pizz support), Aux Bus FX (parallel distortion), eq, compressor, reverb and (little) mastering (-0.5 dB)

I could imagine, that you get the Psycho film music culmination point out of this setup exaggerating the distortion on short and even higher notes even more with the stock sounds...

When using the Violins like this in a mix with other instruments the distortion effect might be covered a bit, while keeping the prominent character of violins. It´s really about nuances. Sometimes - you will know that - this extra distortion concept happens to a bass guitar sound (i.e. using SansAmp et al) to make it rather more transparent and pushing through a mix, than really intending to let your audience hear the sizzeling distortion effect.

String_Harshness_LPX_Forum.zip 970.07 kB · 0 downloads

the cases where i missed an agressive attack it were more about the sample quality, and the lack of samples for chords, double stops in strings

maybe the distortion might help

[Sunset]

Did you try the shorter articulations (Pizz, spicc etc)?.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Byhxx

[emanuel_froes]

2 hours ago, Byhxx said:

Did you try the shorter articulations (Pizz, spicc etc)?.

 

 

me?  I dont use Logic strings since a long time ; ) 

 

[Sunset]

Aso...

3rd party purchases libs should offer sharp attacks no matter leaving the logic strings stand in the rain.

[emanuel_froes]

Just now, Byhxx said:

Aso...

3rd party purchases libs should offer sharp attacks no matter leaving the logic strings stand in the rain.

totally hahah i was talking about this

Unfortunely we are in this era of great free libraries.    

 

 

The pitty with Logic´s strings is the tone!!!! The programming for the string samples used in the Sampler is STILL gold.  That Sampler is great.  I hope they put new recordings there!  Imagine the day you dont need NI and EW anymore...

[Sunset]

I like the idea that Logic is offering anything to produce in stock. Sqeezing it a bit here and there...

Edited October 6, 2023 by Byhxx