Dynamic_Notes Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Im converting old Projects. Some of these have Apple Loops from the Logic 8 era. Most are found without issue. ( I copied my L8 library across to new computer.) The filename discrepancy seems to only be Apple Loops. Once you locate the right file and load it, it plays perfectly fine, with waveform updates etc. The name is sufficiently intact to search libraries, and once found my only option is to compare with a mix-down. Thats easy enough if it stands out in the mix and is reasonably unique (ie doesn't belong to a large group like 01 > 101) but if these 2 conditions aren't met its almost impossible to figure out which variant you've used. If you get it wrong you have to do some fancy footwork (ie rename the file from the Finder) to have logic bring up a 'file not found' box so you can try another one. Not elegant and pretty gruelling. From these examples below, can anyone advise or have an idea how to work out the correct name? Would be super grateful. Ive used 6 Loops from Logic8 > Apple Loops for Soundtrack Pro>Apple Loops> Brian Daly > Guitar > Acoustic Guitar > Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking. I can reconcile 3 of them but the others not so much.. Filename in Project Audio: Acoustic Guitar Rock 27CD Region Name: Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D4D Reconciles and is identical to: Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 03 Filename in Project Audio: Acoustic Guitar Rock 27D2 Region Name: Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D63 Reconciles and is identical to: Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 25 Filename in Project Audio: Acoustic Guitar Rock 27D0 Region Name : Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D57 Reconciles and is identical to: Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 21 Filename in Project Audio: Acoustic Guitar Rock 27CF Region Name: Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D51 Reconciles and is identical to: Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking ???? Filename in Project Audio: Acoustic Guitar Rock 27CE Region Name: Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D5D Reconciles and is identical to: Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking ???? Filename in Project Audio: Acoustic Guitar Rock 27D1 Region Name: Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D58 Reconciles and is identical to: Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking ???? Thanks for any help/ ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Maybe you can identify the loops by their length in samples (which hopefully is different, can't check because I don't seem to have these loops here at all), shown when you open the Project File Browser and choose View -> Show Length as -> Samples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 I also have this Brian Daly collection, probably copied over from Soundtrack Pro that came as part of the Logic Studio 9 bundle. This is the file list in the Acoustic Guitar folder: Acoustic Guitar Filler.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 01.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 02.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 03.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 04.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 05.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 06.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 07.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 08.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 09.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 10.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 11.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 12.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 13.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 14.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 15.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 16.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 17.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 18.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 19.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 20.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 21.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 22.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 23.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 24.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 25.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 26.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 27.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 28.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 29.caf Acoustic Guitar Rock Picking 30.caf Acoustic Guitar Turnaround.caf Not sure if that's of any help though… :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 @polanoid Thanks, good idea. I'll try that. As a side note, I remember a long time ago I noticed Apple updated some Loops and they were different sizes. Newer ones were smaller. Hopefully if these Ive listed are in that category the length remains intact. @loukash I have the complete set. The issue is Logic won't reconcile the files because somehow the names have been (partially) changed as Ive described above. All I know is I sure didn't change them and if I did I would'nt put obscure numbers on the end. It can't be a compatibility thing becasue once I find the right file its all good. I'd like to know why its happened in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution loukash Posted November 14, 2023 Solution Share Posted November 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: I'd like to know why its happened in the first place. To me the filenames look like truncated long filenames from Mac OS X as seen from Mac OS 9. The classic Mac OS filename character limit was 31. Also on the HFS file system in general I guess. Apple fixed a lot of these issues in 1998 with HFS+ which allows filenames up to 255 characters. Note that e.g. "Acoustic Guitar Rock P#3D4D" is 27 characters. Add the file extension ".caf" and there you have the 31 characters maximum. Also the # character is typical for this kind of truncation. Even on OSX, some "old school" apps can't handle long filenames well. On El Capitan, I'm still using the iView/Expression Media D.A.M., and it's got similar issues. Why that happened? Hard to tell. I skipped Logic 8 back in the day, going from L7 Express directly to LP Studio 9. Perhaps a bug in LP8? Or have some of your data been temporarily stored on a HFS (no plus) formatted disk? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, loukash said: a HFS (no plus) formatted disk? Which reminds me: I vaguely remember that Disk Utility used to format disk images as HFS by default. Possibly also certain MacOS-compatible CD-Rs used to be burned using HFS formatting rather than HFS+ or the universal data format (what was its name again…) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 Thankyou very much for that info. Really appreciated. Very helpful to nutting this out. I started on Atari but from that to Logic 6 to Logic 8 to 10. All my drives were always formatted HFS+. I do have CD-R backups as well as DVDs. I dont have access to a Mac Drive where I could check the format out of interest, unless Linux might tell me. Now, you could very well have a point about Disk Images because the projects Ive been working on are in an encrypted disk image done by disk utility. As an aside I'm not sure if there's anything in it but Ive heard that later OS's may not be able to open older disk images. So far mine are OK in that way, but Im looking to build fresh ones just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 I checked the length as samples and no deal, they're all the same and I can't compare with the files in the finder as they dont give me an option to see in sample length. All the file sizes in kbs for this library in Finder are different, but of course they're 0 kbs in Project Audio window. One thing I tried to narrow the field was check the length in beats/ bars by dragging into untagged loops and comparing that with the empty regions in Main WIndow and pulling those out to full length in case Id shortened them. Looks like its going to be trial and error. Trying each one that has the same length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: Ive heard that later OS's may not be able to open older disk images. Yep, I was reading something similar just the other day. I haven't yet tested all my old disk images on Ventura though. But I'm not worried, I have a plenty of old Macs booting various flavors of Mac OS to tinker with antique files. And for OS 9, there's SheepShaver. [offtopic] (Sadly though, my PowerMac G4 "Digital Audio" died just a few weeks ago, being the last Mac I had that was capable of dual boot OS 9 or OS X up to Tiger. Probably the power unit has burned out, again. Not sure if it's still worth the hassle buying a new unit so I'll likely sell the rest for spare parts. That was the machine where I originally started with Logic in 2001, using the free Logic Delta that came bundled with the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI card. In fact, I sold the card online just earlier this year – 22 years old! – to someone who wanted to use it in his old PC. Go figure…) [/offtopic] 11 minutes ago, Dynamic_Notes said: I can't compare with the files in the finder as they dont give me an option to see in sample length. create a blank Logic project drag and drop the samples from Finder into the Project Audio window View → Show Length As → Samples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Notes Posted November 14, 2023 Author Share Posted November 14, 2023 (edited) Thanks for that tip loukash. So I doubled down and listened carefully with headphones comparing Mixdown file with the untagged loops. Fortunately the speed and pitch was correct as long as logics transport was running. Got the job done, but I will make dang sure I dont have to do that again. Back in the day HDD drive space was a thing for many of us, and so you came up with work-arounds or compromises, which in the end can cause such issues as this. Something that happened that Ive never seen before is if I chose the wrong file, the regions in the Main Window showed all white. Bit weird. Another thing that is a real nightmare and theres a thread dedicated to it, is that logic tells you file lengths have changed - real nasty stuff. I've had a few of these in the conversion process, as well as a couple prior, since using Logic 10 - but in my case it was something that could be fixed every time because I was sloppy with naming files. ie LV#01 is not conducive to a good organized filesystem. Do a few of those and you could be in real trouble. I had the last or nearly the last top end Dual Processor G4, the only one (I think) that had a massive copper heatsink. Ran well with L6 but Im afraid I had to tread carefully with L8. I think I just scraped in on the required specs. It died around 5 years ago. I still have the "Superdrive" but I'd need an IDE >USB adapter to make use of it. I pulled the HDDs and put them in my Linux machine and wrangled my way to find a file I was desperate to find. I had the M-Audio delta 1010. Around the same time my G4 gave up, that went out in sympathy lol. A burned cap. Your post was the closest to a solution so thanks. Edited November 14, 2023 by Dynamic_Notes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polanoid Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 7 hours ago, loukash said: To me the filenames look like truncated long filenames from Mac OS X as seen from Mac OS 9. The classic Mac OS filename character limit was 31. Also on the HFS file system in general I guess. Apple fixed a lot of these issues in 1998 with HFS+ which allows filenames up to 255 characters. Unfortunately it took Logic until version 9.1 (I think) to support long filenames as well... so the issue can happen in all projects saved with versions older than this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 6 hours ago, Dynamic_Notes said: Back in the day HDD drive space was a thing for many of us, and so you came up with work-arounds or compromises Haha, I do remember that oh so well! For a couple years in the mid and late 1990s I used to use my then-girlfriend's PowerBook 140 with a whopping 40 MB (!) hard drive as my graphic design "workstation". It was such a p.i.t.a., archiving everything on dozens of floppies, stuffed into *.sit archives. Until Iomega's Zip drives came along which was then amazing with 100 MB space on each disk. And even as of 1999 I was still using an old Macintosh LC475 (still have it!) until I could finally afford an iMac in 2000, then replaced it with the PM G4 a year later. 4 hours ago, polanoid said: it took Logic until version 9.1 (I think) to support long filenames as well That might explain it, thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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