Multi timbral & Multi Out Question

[Scriabin rocks]

I must be doing something wrong. I opened Opus Instr2 as 4x multi timbral and Multi Out 1+2, 3+4, 5+6, 7+8.

The track plays one note that triggers a Grand casa Drum on 1+2 and a Uileann pipe on 7+8 as can be seen in the mixer.

I believed that data for the pipe would be written to the corresponding track instead of all together onto the track set to the output of the grand casa. 

What am I missing?

Thanks a lot!

Edited December 9, 2023 by Scriabin rocks

[des99]

Ok, these are different things - you have four MIDI tracks, all playing MIDI data to one plugin on one channel strip. You then have additional channel strips in the mixer (which aren't assigned to tracks in the track page), which handle the multiple outputs from the plugin.

You're expecting your MIDI track to magically be assigned to the aux channel strip that's handling that part, but this doesn't happen automatically - there's inherently no relation between multi-timbrality (the ability for an instrument to play different sounds at once, usually on different MIDI channels), and multi-output (the ability to send different sounds to different outputs), and if you're not clear on the concepts, this can indeed be confusing.

You could of course assign those aux tracks handling the outputs to the tracks arrange, and record the MIDI parts onto them - this does work, and is probably more in line with your expectation.

[Jordi Torres]

Also, it sounds like your instruments are set to "omni" mode (they respond to data on any MIDI channel), otherwise the one that's supposed to respond to data on MIDI channel 4 wouldn't be making any sound.

J.

[Scriabin rocks]

Hi there Des, yes, it is somewhat confusing. I should have mentioned that I used an Opus Orchestrator "Multi", which also has different Midi channels. I am getting slightly dizzy here.

In addition, was there not something, I think I recall from Omnisphere, that it is better for CPU reasons to record each instrument on a single track hence have 8 Omnisphere instances instead of one with 8 slots loaded.

I just wonder what the best approach is to work with Opus when one uses the Orchestrator and you know, perhaps you want to add a Modwheel afterwards to a single instrument instead of the whole setup.

Pheew. 

 

8 minutes ago, Jordi Torres said:

Also, it sounds like your instruments are set to "omni" mode (they respond to data on any MIDI channel), otherwise the one that's supposed to respond to data on MIDI channel 4 wouldn't be making any sound.

J.

Hi Jordi, nope, as per screenshot above. But... track 4 that logic set up and where the pipe is supposed to go in, is set to channel 2 in Orchestrator. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Scriabin rocks

[Scriabin rocks]

Hmm, put it this way, if you press a single key in orchestrator, that can trigger 1 or all instruments in a multi depending on the key zones, now, you do not want that data all on one track when more than one instrument ist triggered, right?  

[Jordi Torres]

 

8 minutes ago, Scriabin rocks said:

Hi Jordi, nope, as per screenshot above. But... track 4 that logic set up and where the pipe is supposed to go in, is set to channel 2 in Orchestrator. 

 

I don't know what software instrument you're using (I don't know this "orchestrator", please try to be specific about what you're using otherwise we're just guessing), I'm just saying that if there's data on MIDI channel 1 triggering an instrument that's supposed to respond to some other MIDI channel (as per the MIDI Out Channel parameter on a track's settings) it's most likely because internally (in the software instrument) it's set to respond to any or more than one MIDI channel.

J.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Jordi Torres

[Scriabin rocks]

Argh... sorry, the screenshot is wrong, it was set as described, 1+2, 3+4 and so on.

[Scriabin rocks]

Folks, this is too confusing from my side... I rest this for now and dig deep into manuals. Many years ago I used Kontakt and there I was able to do that if memory serves.

 

I am using East West Fantasy Orchester together with the Orchestrator, which is kinda sequencer progammable Multisetup.

[Scriabin rocks]

I'll get back to that here If am I clearer on the problem or even found a solution. Thanks so far.

[Scriabin rocks]

Well, one thing is possible to achieve and that goes like that, it is a crutch but well:

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scriabin rocks

[Scriabin rocks]

What I can not figure out is whether the fact that Opus instruments are not assigned afterwards is a Logic or EW problem, either way, I would be reasonably hopeful that this can be sorted out to become a fully workable solution at some stage.  

In greater detail: 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Scriabin rocks

[Scriabin rocks]

Seperating Midi by event channels, I was looking or a function that I knew from Cubase long ago "dissolve parts", but this does not work either.

In the Opus Manual under Perform Midi out export, Logic is NOT mentioned as a supported Daw. That indicates to me that a solution may need to come from Logic, I might be wrong here, but Cubase, Studio One, and Protools are supported.

Currently it is a mess, unusable, and it is the most important part of working with Orchestrator in detail.  You can "use" it, but it will not assign the instruments, but have Logic instruments assigned after the export instead of Opus instruments, each with a plethora of FX on each channel, which means you manually have to assign each single instrument to the Miditracks, which in case of the scores option in Orchestrator is an insane task.

I will try to have a chat with EW for a better understanding and shall report back here. In any case, perhaps there are third party tools for Logic that allow for this Midi Out export  to work, I don't know.

So, if any HOOPUS user here reads that and knows about a third party tool, drop a line please. Thanks!

P.S. Sent a Feedback on this to Logic Pro team, can't hurt. 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Scriabin rocks

[fernandraynaud]

I've found EW support via chat very helpful. Michael knows the program. Now that the "little hand" export can be dropped into a multi-timbral instance of Opus, it works. Each track has an individual MIDI channel that controls the right instrument, e.g. 3CL for 3 clarinets. But all the tracks share settings, including volumę automation. Not sure how to separate out the tracks without some settings, like MIDI channel, getting shifted. Still not a HUGE amount of work. I keep asking EW for a RECIPE !!! 

[fernandraynaud]

Orchestrator started life as some sort of hallucination for the naive kids who think it will write symphonic blockbuster music for them while they TikTok. Just fork over the cash.

But it's a great tool if used on sections of compositions instead. They are over half-way to usable with the MIDI export "little hand". They just need to fix bugs and define a quick workflow to create individual tracks in Logic. Of course, the joy of finding tracks playing with default Logic instruments is at least better than playing GM patches, LOL. If you drag the export into a 16 stereo outputs multi-timbral instance of Opus with the same orchestrator preset, it plays ok, leaving the single Multi to untangle into separate tracks. Right? Anyone know how? 

[fernandraynaud]

My method so far is to create a single output instance of Opus, load Orchestrator and input my "prompt" chords there.

Once it's usable I add a 16 stereo outs multi-timbral instance of Opus that I load WITH THE SAME ORCHESTRATOR PRESET. Play the base track into it. That makes the "little hand" in the lower right hand corner show a white dot and record it. After stopping the transport, the "little hand "goes back to waiting. Drag the "little hand" to the multi-output Opus instance. That tends to assign the instrument tracks correctly.

Now the fun part. How to pull these out into individual tracks with the right names, distinct settings and volumes. One at a time works, leaving some cleanup to do. Strange that I can't find a "break track-stack-like multi into separate tracks" function. 

 

[fernandraynaud]

Orchestrator is, thank Heaven, not going to write any Superhero 9th symphony for you. But as a little assistant it could be helpful, if only there was a fast way to get from A to MIDI to independent Regions/tracks.

This here tries to illustrate a working method, starting with two OPUS Orchestrator instances. OP1 has a single stereo out, and OP2 is multitimbral, with a full 16 stereo outs, both with the same Orchestrator preset loaded.

OP1 is where you develop your "prompts", by analogy with ChatGPT. You then export the Orchestrator's MIDI output, using the "little hand", to "fan out" into the multitimbral OP2.

At this point OP1 and OP2 should SOUND the same, although the OP1 MIDI data is all merged, and the OP2 regions share too many settings to be useful. They are like tracks created "with duplicate settings", or a summing stack, and we know what a pain those are. 

Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to easily break the OP2 stacked tracks into independent Logic tracks, each separately automatable, playing the correct instrument that Orchestrator assigned. It's perhaps feasible, and less memory-intensive, to keep them in one single OPUS instance, but without sharing settings? Who knows. 

Come join the developers in Germany, the Support staff in California, and everybody else, in beating our heads against this wall. 

[fernandraynaud]

Michael, in West Coast US suport, threw out the depressing dead-end thought that "it may not be possible in Logic". Oh, Michael, that's not likely! 

We are already half way home. The regions coming from "the little hand" are correctly labeled and they play the right Instruments in the Orchestrator patch, IF we match up the MIDI channels. Dragging the regions one by one into empty track space, we DO get independent tracks. BUT then an Opus Multi gets in the way with the mystery BYPASS button. AAAGH! 

Edited April 9 by fernandraynaud