Gargamel Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Sorry if this has been up before. Just wanted to warn people with Firewire devices that Apple apparently has stopped supporting Firewire in osx Sonoma and Ventura. This means that the devices will stop working, even if you have the right dongles/converters. This sucks, since FW remained a standard in pro audio devices long after Apple introduced Thunderbolt. Best- Wilhelm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/721151 On Ventura, it may work for some devices. Not for mine though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 apple abandoned firewire in macs around 2012, so no surprises here... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rAC Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Actually the culprit in killing Firewire was intel not Apple. BTW Firewire still works in both Ventura and Sonoma if you have the appropriate converter cables (FW to TB2). I know this as both my FF800 and UFX worked in Ventura and continue to work in Sonoma. @GargamelGiven that FW has been on its ‘deathbed’ for about 10 years I don’t think you can really say that it sucks especially as it still actually works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bellas Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 I empathize with your dissatisfaction regarding planned obsolescence, evolving connection standards, and the never ending cycle of upgrades and updates. I have been using stock vintage Stratocaster’s for decades, which will all last well beyond a single lifetime, and all without ever updating or upgrading any component on the instrument, other than a fresh set of strings. Compared to relic Mac Pro’s, will a future incarnation of the Mac Pro be able to increase my creative capacity? Will it be able to increase the quality, ingenuity, and authenticity of my imaginative writing? No. A machine can certainly augment a human’s creativity, but to whatever extent a machine contributes to idea proliferation or manipulation, the resulting work will no longer be a product of genuine individualistic artistry. Thankfully, Picasso never had to ponder that thought. I digress. Use what you have and create amazing music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted December 29, 2023 Author Share Posted December 29, 2023 3 hours ago, rAC said: Actually the culprit in killing Firewire was intel not Apple. BTW Firewire still works in both Ventura and Sonoma if you have the appropriate converter cables (FW to TB2). I know this as both my FF800 and UFX worked in Ventura and continue to work in Sonoma. @GargamelGiven that FW has been on its ‘deathbed’ for about 10 years I don’t think you can really say that it sucks especially as it still actually works. I haven’t tried the new OSX’s myself so I relied on info from the intetnet, sorry if I got it wrong. What sucks is that Apple keep on introducing new technologies only to immediately abandon them. They also always make sure that things aren’t backward compatible. I’ve been through Firewire 400, Firewire 800, thunderbolt 1, 2, and 3 and have ridiculous chains of adaptors and dongles to make my expensive peripherals (barely) function. Apple are IMHO needlessly waisting money and time for customers and for companies who develope peripheral equipment. They are also contributing to significant amounts of industrial waste despite of their environmental policies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rAC Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 Meanwhile my TB1 & 2 devices all also continue to work on my Mac Studio alongside the FW device (I have the UFX now connected by USB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zplane Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 There are still used OWC Thunderbolt3 docs around for sale that include a Firewire 800 port, e.g., https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Port-Thunderbolt-Dock-Space/dp/B01N51P3BB/ref=sr_1_6?crid=7Q65PEXOVX9Y&keywords=OWC+Thunderbolt+3+dock&qid=1703821822&s=electronics&sprefix=owc+thunderbolt+3+dock+%2Celectronics%2C66&sr=1-6 Don't know if you can use a TB3 doc with a newer TB4 Mac. We've had no issues with using those OWC docs with older TB3 Macs including using the FireWire port. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rAC Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 My OWC M2 bay is TB3 works no issues with the M1’s TB4 ports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, rAC said: Firewire still works in both Ventura and Sonoma if you have the appropriate converter cables (FW to TB2). "Works" is a bit of an exaggeration… As far as hard drives is concerned, it "crawls" at best. With every FW disk I tried – and I have many, going as far back as 2003 – that also has a USB interface, using USB was always faster on my MacBook Air. Tested each disk very thoroughly with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test app. So for me, even though I wouldn't know if I hadn't tried, buying the overpriced Apple adapters was a waste of money in the end. That all said, since I'm using the old FW audio interfaces primarily for mobile recording, I still hook them up to the old 2008 MacBook running El Capitan and Logic 10.3.3. It all just works, and with the newly acquired Octacapture via USB I have now a total of 18 XLR inputs available. (If I only had that many mics, hehe…) Edited December 29, 2023 by loukash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 19 hours ago, rAC said: Actually the culprit in killing Firewire was intel not Apple. BTW Firewire still works in both Ventura and Sonoma if you have the appropriate converter cables (FW to TB2). I know this as both my FF800 and UFX worked in Ventura and continue to work in Sonoma. Wait: do you actually have FireWire hardware working under Sonoma? Connected via FireWire? Is this on a machine that had Big Sur installed and was upgraded in place to Ventura and then Sonoma, or a fresh install? Apple Silicon? Intel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rAC Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 @analogika it’s a M1 Studio which came with Ventura. I did a a fresh install onto it and it’s been updated to Sonoma. See my sig for further specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordi Torres Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 (edited) Although no longer my main audio interface, I also have an RME Fireface 400 working fine while connected via an "adapter snake" on both Intel and Silicon macs running Ventura. Having two or more adapters interconnected like that is just silly, but as long as it works... As for my external FW drives, years ago I decided to just take them out of their enclosures and insert them as needed into an OWC Drive Dock (USB 3.2 Gen 2, 10 Gbps). It's a bit like having an Atari console all over again! 😅 Might require being a bit careful to avoid ESD, though. J. Edited December 29, 2023 by Jordi Torres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 On 12/29/2023 at 11:15 AM, loukash said: "Works" is a bit of an exaggeration… As far as hard drives is concerned, it "crawls" at best. With every FW disk I tried – and I have many, going as far back as 2003 – that also has a USB interface, using USB was always faster on my MacBook Air. Tested each disk very thoroughly with Blackmagic Disk Speed Test app. So for me, even though I wouldn't know if I hadn't tried, buying the overpriced Apple adapters was a waste of money in the end. Up until the 2006 Intel MacBooks, FireWire was reliably and consistently faster on Macs than USB2. This especially true for FW800, but even FW400 was faster than USB2‘s 480 Mbps, due to lower overhead and direct chipset handshake — and probably deliberate USB implementation decisions on Apple‘s side… Cheap or incomplete FW implementation in external peripherals notwithstanding, of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, analogika said: Up until the 2006 Intel MacBooks, FireWire was reliably and consistently faster on Macs than USB2. This especially true for FW800, but even FW400 was faster than USB2‘s 480 Mbps, due to lower overhead and direct chipset handshake Of course. On my 2008 MBP I've been avoiding USB whenever I can. On the 2012 MBP, a genuine USB3 connection is often faster, but when it comes to external drives then a spinning HD is the primary bottleneck anyway. Besides, the ultimate FW killer feature was its daisy chaining as well as cable length. I can easily run the Alesis iO26 and the M-Audio FW410 daisy-chained via a 10 m (!) FW cable, bus powered. It! Just! Friggin'! Works! Since 15 years. Unfortunately, neither the iO26 nor the FW410 are fully "class compliant", hence no dice on Ventura. At least, the iO26 still works on Catalina, only its 32-bit app doesn't, so the routing and monitoring can't be edited from there; it probably might even work up to Monterey but I never had a Mac to test it. Also, once set up, the iO26 actually works as a standalone device. In my studio I was using it as a phono preamp (yep, it has a phono input!) for many years without even pluging it into the MBP. Edited December 30, 2023 by loukash 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rAC Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 @loukash class compliance is not a factor in getting the FF800 or UFX to work with Sonoma. What is is that RME still writes drivers for them. So perhaps you should contact the manufacturers of the iO26 and FW410 and ask about drivers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loukash Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Just now, rAC said: you should contact the manufacturers of the iO26 and FW410 and ask about drivers Haha! Thanks for the laugh… :D Alesis is no more in business for audio interfaces. The last driver and app update was in 2012 for Mountain Lion. It works fine on El Capitan, probably also up to Mojave. The driver also works on Catalina via a small hack: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/61103781 M-Audio killed their FW410 drivers over a decade ago as well, although the latest official ones are still downloadable: https://m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/firewire-osx-1.10.5 Those also work on Mountain Lion. On El Capitan it works only thanks to user hacked drivers that someone originally posted on Fecebook and later on Yootoob: Apparently some folks made it work up to Mojave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarns Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 i better start shopping for some accessories, i've got TB2 hahaha, can't find anything for it now. the same will be for firewire i guess I've got a presonus studiolive 16.4.2 (classic) with firewire that i connect to my pc for capture. if i ever get a new desktop i'll use my imac for the studio instead... but i haven't got any firewire adapters for it 😞 anyone know where i can get TB2-firewire adapters or TB2 docks or external drives? places that have em listed do so with a sold out sticker 🤪 or 👀 an out of stock tag 🫣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, yarns said: anyone know where i can get TB2-firewire adapters Wow. Apple no longer carries them…!? I guess used is your only bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doye Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 My Presonus Firestudio Project is working with Ventura. I had it working with Catalina so I just upgraded on an unsupported Macbook Pro 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enossified Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 hours ago, yarns said: anyone know where i can get TB2-firewire adapters or TB2 docks or external drives? OWC still has some TB2 stuff available. These also work with TB1 ports, just at half-speed. TB2 drive bays TB2 cables 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarns Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 1/4/2024 at 6:08 AM, enossified said: OWC still has some TB2 stuff available. These also work with TB1 ports, just at half-speed. sweet, mines TB2 anyways 😄 ... i think, better check ahhahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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