CC Data and Articulation ID

[gunbrenner]

Hi, I'm having trouble with CC data while using Articulation Sets in Logic Pro X and Musio Multi Timbral.

I'm loading different articulations in one Musio Instance (legato, sustain, etc) and separate them in different MIDI channels so I can use Articulation ID in order to switch between them in one instrument track. That works just fine but the problem occurs when writing CC data: It won't affect articulations in different MIDI channels. 

For example in one Musio Instance I'll have MIDI CH1 for VLN Legato and CH2 for VLN Sustains. If I write CC1 on a midi region it will only affect the selected articulation (in this case Legato) so If I swap some notes (using articulation ID) to Sustains the CC1 data won't have any effect on them, it will still only affect MIDI CH 1.

I think kinda makes sense but defeats the purpose of having different articulations in one Instrument Track if CC data have to be re-written/recorded every time I intend to switch articulation. 

Is there a work around for that, like having CCs affect all midi channels at once (since only one plays at a time)? I'm not sure if I Musio lets you switch articulations with something other than by Midi Channel. I'm trying to avoid loading each articulation in different instrument tracks.

Thanks for the help!

I'm using Logic Pro X 10.8  on a Mac Mini M1 2020 running macOS Ventura 13.6.1

[Dewdman42]

Try this:  https://gitlab.com/dewdman42/Channelizer/-/wikis/EventChaser

[gunbrenner]

Wow thank you so much, it works like a charm!! 

[Plowman]

@Dewdman42, I am grateful for this thread because it gives me the chance to thank you for your script. 

I don't know coding, and I've never written a script. But I do know that handling multiple CC messages on a multi-timbral instance leads to a bowling alley full of CC lanes in Main > Track. It's a time-devouring creativity killer.

For months now, maybe even more than a year, your Event Chaser has permanently resided in all of my orchestral loads, and it's never failed. I draw CC data once, and it accommodates any channel that happens to be performing at that moment in time.

Logic orchestral composers in particular should know this is out there.  

I've been intending to thank you for a while. This thread now gives me the chance to do so in an open forum.

 

[Dewdman42]

for the record I have another version of it, written with BlueCatAudio's PlugN'Script plugin, which can do all the same stuff in other DAW's. I intend to build it eventually as a native VST plugin but there are some logistics i need to solve, in any case that version can be used in just about any DAW, including LogicPro (the existing script).   That version handles PolyPressure also, which I haven't added back to the Scripter version (yet).

But yea the Scripter version is just for you guys here!  glad to hear its being utilized...

 

[ravez]

Sorry if I am misunderstanding this, but the way i would do this is to set the channel of the articulations in the "output" tab of the articulation maps editor (3rd tab, not the 2nd tab called "articulations").

That way the notes and cc curves are all gonna be recorded on channel 1, but as they play the curves will affect all channels while the notes (which have articulation IDs attached) will be channelized to the appropriate instrument.

At least that's how it works with Opus, i don't have Musio.

If you instead set the channel on the articulation tab rather than the output tab you will have the issue you were having, where the cc curves will split into the different articulations channels

 

[Dewdman42]

the first tab relates to input switches to assign articulation id's to midi events as they come in.  You actually don't normally want to assign articulation id's to CC's when they come in, just notes.  Its actually a design flaw that LogicPro articulation sets do that behavior during recording.

On playback, as you surmised, the output tab determines what to do with events that have articulation id's.  If you recorded your track WITHOUT assigning articulation id's to CC's during record, then the output tab will not send the CC's to where you want them to go.  something else has to help out.

Its true if you record the CC's with articulation ID's then they would also channelize just like notes..and you can certainly work that way if you wish, but here a few things to consider about that:

1. if you reassign notes to different articulationID's then you originally recorded, it will be a PITA to change all relavant CC's along with them.
    
2. If you draw any CC events with the pencil tool they will not have articulation ID's assign to line up with the surrounding notes.
    
3. the above is particularly the case if you use line ramps to interpolate CC values for expression, none of the send CC's would have the desired articulationID's
    
4. when you copy and paste notes or move them around to other places, it would be a PITA to also move the corresponding CC expression that has exactly lined up articulationID's also in the expression.
    
5. Also I vaguely recall that CC's with articulationID's might cause key switches to be fired off undesirably.

In short, it's just a lot better to keep articulationID's only in the notes and then hope that LogicPro will send CC's to the same places where notes are going at any point in time.  Unfortunately LogicPro doesn't do that, but my Script will do it for you, problem solved.

 

Edited January 4 by Dewdman42

[ravez]

Right, that was my point, to not use the articulation id for cc curves but just for notes (so not in the articulation tab but the output tab).

I am failing to see the design flaw in Logic as this is working as i expect, it works fine with Opus with different articulations loaded into different midi channels.

So I would assume Musio should work too.

EDIT:

nevermind, it does glitch right before the articulation change, i see how your script will fix that now

Edited January 4 by ravez

[Dewdman42]

the design flaw is related to the input tab.  sorry if you don't understand what I already wrote above, maybe read it again to understand better.

Per the output, if you are using channelizing of notes...then you need CC's, PitchBend and Aftertouch to also be channelized along with the notes.  that is a second design flaw..that LogicPro doesn't do it for us automatically as it should.  Perhaps if you try things out you will understand.  good luck.

By the way, DP does not have this design flaw, well partly doesn't.  It channelizes CC's along with the notes, but doesn't chase and doesn't do continuation, so they need to work on it also, and my PNS script helps in that case.  Cubase does it but as I recall only when using direction mode, can't remember now.