Bouncing Multiout Instruments

[ansolas]

Hello,
do I understood it correct that the following procedure could be used to bounce the  Multiouts of an instrument to individual audio tracks.

1.) Select Region Track

2.) File / Bounce / Track in Place:

3.) and then select: New Track, Include Instrument Multi-Outputs, As Additional Tracks:


Expected Result:
each Multiout gets rendered to a new track, correct ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is what I get in reality.
For testing purposed I creted a simple Sampler Patch with 2 Groups, with outputs assigned to 3-4 / 5-6:

The MIDI Region simply triggers the samples and they playback properly through the assigned channels:
 




When I now follow the procedure I described above, just the last channel is rendered:


This also happens with 3rd Party Plugins such as Omnisphere.

Do I miss here something?

I attached the Test Project as reference.

Any help is welcome.

 

Logic Bounce Multiouts.zip

Edited January 15 by ansolas

[JakobP]

Can't try right now, but iirc you need to create tracks for the instrument auxes too...

[ansolas]

27 minutes ago, JakobP said:

Can't try right now, but iirc you need to create tracks for the instrument auxes too...

Just checked, then I get this dialog:

And the bouce contains both channels:

Edited January 15 by ansolas

[ansolas]

Rendering separate channels works when each track contains events and when I simply bounce each track separate.

But that won't help with an Multiout Instrumets, where one note triggers multiple channels.

I created a new project with exact that setup, see attached.

Bounce Multiout 2.zip

Edited January 15 by ansolas

[David Nahmani]

Create empty MIDI regions on the Aux tracks, then bounce or export. 

[JakobP]

1 hour ago, ansolas said:

1.) Select Region

If you're using "Bounce track in Place" make sure the instrument track is selected ?

[ansolas]

3 minutes ago, JakobP said:

If you're using "Bounce track in Place" make sure the instrument track is selected ?

that's what did

3 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Create empty MIDI regions on the Aux tracks, then bounce or export. 

that won't help with an Multiout Instrumets, where one note triggers multiple channels.

Edited January 15 by ansolas

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, ansolas said:

that won't help with an Multiout Instrumets, where one note triggers multiple channels.

It will help. Try it. It works.

[JakobP]

I tried your project and I get two audio files which seems correct ? 

[David Nahmani]

Just now, JakobP said:

I tried your project and I get two audio files which seems correct ? 

Wow you're right actually (I just tried it)! You don't even need the old trick of creating an empty MIDI region on the Aux tracks. 

[ansolas]

6 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Create empty MIDI regions on the Aux tracks, then bounce or export. 

That gives me this result:

[David Nahmani]

@ansolas What you need to do is select the two Aux tracks like below, then bounce. 

Result:

[JakobP]

3 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

@ansolas What you need to do is select the two Aux tracks like below, then bounce. 

Actually, it seems you don't even need. to create tracks for the auxes... Try it 🙂

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, JakobP said:

it seems you don't even need. to create tracks for the auxes... Try it 🙂

That gives me only one of the outputs (Samp5-6) but not the other? 

[ansolas]

Selecting the tracks and then do a track in place bounce seems to work, thank you!

[David Nahmani]

You're welcome! 🙂 Thanks to @JakobP for showing us that we no longer need to create empty MIDI regions on the Aux tracks before bouncing!

[JakobP]

4 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

That gives me only one of the outputs (Samp5-6) but not the other? 

Strange ? This is what happens here...

[David Nahmani]

Probably a 10.7.9 vs 10.8.1 difference.

Did you listen to those two regions? I find it curious that the first one is named bip2 (and not Samp3-4 as I would have expected). 

[ansolas]

Thank you very much for your help!

[JakobP]

1 minute ago, David Nahmani said:

Probably a 10.7.9 vs 10.8.1 difference.

Did you listen to those two regions? I find it curious that the first one is named bip2 (and not Samp3-4 as I would have expected). 

Yeah, they sound like the original, panning included...

[ansolas]

Without creating AUX channels it doens't work here.

Edited January 15 by ansolas

[David Nahmani]

2 minutes ago, JakobP said:

Yeah, they sound like the original, panning included...

Ok then maybe this is the way it should work, and we're experiencing  a new bug in 10.8.1 😞 Still buggy on that naming there. 

Just now, ansolas said:

Without creating aus channels it doens't work here.

Yes same here. 

[JakobP]

11 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

Ok then maybe this is the way it should work, and we're experiencing  a new bug in 10.8.1 😞 Still buggy on that naming there. 

Tried it in 10.5.1 for the heck of it, and it works fine there too, actually the naming seems to work better there, i.e. the tracks get named as the auxes...

Edited January 15 by JakobP

[David Nahmani]

Tried it in 10.8 and it doesn't work either (same as 10.8.1). 

[JakobP]

Fwiw, tried with a multi out Drum Kit Designer, then the naming works fine (in 10.7.9)...

 

[Jordi Torres]

1 hour ago, David Nahmani said:

Wow you're right actually (I just tried it)! You don't even need the old trick of creating an empty MIDI region on the Aux tracks. 

Yep, that’s not necessary at all when bouncing multi out instruments. Also no need to manually create tracks in the tracks area for the multi out auxes.

J.

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, Jordi Torres said:

Also no need to manually create tracks in the tracks area for the multi out auxes.

For some reason that doesn't work in 10.8.1 with the project supplied by the OP if the Aux tracks aren't there. 

[Jordi Torres]

Just now, David Nahmani said:

For some reason that doesn't work with the project supplied by the OP if the Aux tracks aren't there.

Ok, will check it out later but I trust and believe you guys 😊

J.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Any final consensus on this now? What's the proper way to bounce tracks in place, with multi-outputs, such that additional tracks are created for each output?

My original method in past versions of Logic:
Select just the instrument track with the MIDI in it (no need to select the Aux tracks or create blank regions in them), select Bounce Tracks in Place, Include Instrument Multi-Outputs, As Additional Tracks.  

Now, the method seems to require selecting the Aux tracks.

HOWEVER: Problems still arise if any outputs are routed through the Main outputs (i.e. the track with the MIDI in it).  That always worked fine for me.  Now, this new method requires selecting that instrument track along with the other auxes.  This leads to erratic results, like:

- not all Auxes are bounced into tracks
- a track is created which contains audio of multiple Auxes merged together (the name may be a concatenation. 
- one Aux is not bounced at all (i.e. missing), typically the output that was routed to the main output (i.e. that would come out of the main instrument track)

If others have time, please test this.  Try bouncing while selecting the main instrument track (either with or without selecting the other auxes, and either with or without actually routing any audio outputs of the instrument to the main instrument track outs).  

For example, with the Bounce Multiout 2 project above, select all 3 tracks and do the Bounce Tracks in Place (or just select the first track, the instrument track called "Multiout".  The result here is a single audio track with a concatenated name (see image): Multiout_bip_Multiout Samp5-6_4

Maybe the problem can be avoided just by never routing anything through the main outputs 1-2.  However, I have hundreds of multi-output presets I use which are set to route through 1-2.

Why did the behavior change?  Is this completely buggy?  Is it documented anywhere by Apple? 

Any help much appreciated!

 

[Jordi Torres]

11 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

My original method in past versions of Logic:
Select just the instrument track with the MIDI in it (no need to select the Aux tracks or create blank regions in them), select Bounce Track in Place, Include Instrument Multi-Outputs, As Additional Tracks.

This used to work beautifully in previous versions and that's no longer the case in 10.8+. It's really annoying.

Now what appears to work is to make sure you have tracks for the Aux channels in the Tracks Area, select all relevant tracks, then Bounce > Tracks in Place making sure not to check the "As Additional Tracks" option (as this yields unexpected results, unlike the previous method):

While this works, it leaves behind a bit of mess compared to the previous method:

 

11 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

HOWEVER: Problems still arise if any outputs are routed through the Main outputs (i.e. the track with the MIDI in it).  That always worked fine for me.  Now, this new method requires selecting that instrument track along with the other auxes.  This leads to erratic results, like:

- not all Auxes are bounced into tracks

Only aux channel strips that are actually passing audio produce audio regions when bouncing. I wouldn't expect that working differently.

 

11 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

- a track is created which contains audio of multiple Auxes merged together (the name may be a concatenation. 

I did not see that behavior when testing with DKD here. Perhaps you can explain how to reproduce that?

 

11 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

- one Aux is not bounced at all (i.e. missing), typically the output that was routed to the main output (i.e. that would come out of the main instrument track)

Could not reproduce that either here with DKD Multi Out.

 

11 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

Why did the behavior change?  Is this completely buggy?  Is it documented anywhere by Apple?

Who knows, they probably broke the previous behavior by fixing something else. I don't think the current behavior is documented. All we have is what's in the manual, see here. The fact that checking the "As Additional Tracks" option gives unexpected results qualifies as a bug as far as I'm concerned.

J.

 

Edited March 3 by Jordi Torres