Logic Sync Settings with External MIDI ( Moog Subsequent 37)

[John Scalia]

A while back , I saw one of David’s post replies when asked about syncing Logic with the Subsequent 37 . He gave 2 potential solutions.
This was his reply:

File > Project Settings > Synchronization: set Sync Mode to MTC to get Logic to sync to the external instrument.
 

IN ADDITION he did also say you can do it the other way around , to allow Logic to send the clock / Moog to receive it. 
This latter method seems to be the most effective. ( I have never gotten it to work the other way ) 

So , when I sync them , I go to  FILE/ PROJECT SETTINGS/ SYNCHRONIZATION/ then click MIDI tab/ Destination:Moog37 , check the Clock box. 
It should be noted that Logic has to be playing in order for it to send clock , and SYNC button must be pressed on the Moog. 

That does work , HOWEVER, if I loop a 16 bar section, with say…Drummer , then start my arpeggiator on the Moog , it locks perfectly….until the loop cycles back !!!  At that point, the synchronization gets all out of whack. 
Might this be cured by changing the Clock Mode selection box ??  The default is “Song-SPP at Play Start and Stop/SPP/ Continue at Cycle Jump”.  But that seems it should be left that way ????

I attached a pic of the sync settings I use. 
 

There must be a way to correct the cycle return to beginning issue. 

Logic Moog Sync Settings.pdf

[Jordi Torres]

Hi John,

Is Follow SPP already set to On on the Moog?

If it already is, does it go out of sync also when you set a cycle that starts on bar 1?

J.

[John Scalia]

Jordi , yes , that setting is the default 

There are 3 or 4 other options. 
But that option should be the one that does what I need it to do. 
I’m going to try to switch those settings and see if it helps. 
I’m guessing that I can’t be the only person using Logic with external midi devices. 
I wouldn’t have this problem if I was playing (in sync) to a ridiculously long drum loop. 
I can actually start my arp ( moog) at any point, and it will lock right in. 
It’s when the cycle returns that things get kicked out of sync. 

[Jordi Torres]

Hi John,

8 minutes ago, John Scalia said:

Jordi , yes , that setting is the default 

Ok.

9 minutes ago, John Scalia said:

There are 3 or 4 other options. 
But that option should be the one that does what I need it to do.

Indeed, there are only 2 other options, and they are for the synth to send MIDI clock, so they should not be relevant when trying to get the synth to follow Logic's clock.

9 minutes ago, John Scalia said:

I’m guessing that I can’t be the only person using Logic with external midi devices.

Not all MIDI devices respond to the same sync messages, that's why I asked you the question I asked in my previous post.

11 minutes ago, John Scalia said:

I can actually start my arp ( moog) at any point, and it will lock right in. 
It’s when the cycle returns that things get kicked out of sync. 

Ok, also when the cycle starts at bar 1?

The reason I ask is because Logic only sends the Start message at that location, everywhere else it sends Continue.

J.

[Jordi Torres]

If there's no difference, then all that's probably left to try is Pattern Clock Mode (plus the Clock Start settings) when using the cycle.

J.

[John Scalia]

3 hours ago, Jordi Torres said:

 

Indeed, there are only 2 other options, and they are for the synth to send MIDI clock, so they should not be relevant when trying to get the synth to follow Logic's clock.

Not all MIDI devices respond to the same sync messages, that's why I asked you the question I asked in my previous post.

Ok, also when the cycle starts at bar 1?

The reason I ask is because Logic only sends the Start message at that location, everywhere else it sends Continue.

Yeah, at the moment I start(play) the cycle, anything that I play on the Moog gets synced during that cycle, but when it returns it wont sync. It wont even keep it where it was. 

[Jordi Torres]

Hi John,

So I decided to give this a go with one of my synths (Novation Bass Station II), and its arpeggiator remains in sync after the cycle jump, even when the cycle starts on bars other than 1 (Continue instead of Start). The sync itself is decent, what I'd expect with MIDI clock: Not supper tight.

Perhaps this could mean the issue is with your Subsequent 37, or something else. You should probably try with another DAW to be sure.

Also check whether your synth's firmware is up to date, I did see some fixes related to MIDI Clock, for example:

• Version 1.0.4: Change in External Sync behavior: does not require MIDI Start message) 
• Version 1.0.2: MIDI sync behavior fixes and improvements

J.

[John Scalia]

Jordi ,

Thanks for doing that ! That at least gives me hope. Jordi , when you sync your synth  to Logics clock , do you use that same default setting I talked about ?

Or are you checking any of the Mtc etc boxes ?

im not checking those boxes . I just wanted to see if you were doing something different than me. 
I have a feeling it’s a Moog issue. 
Although I’m hoping it’s not. I’d really much rather find out I’m not doing something right. lol. 
 

[John Scalia]

Also , Jordi …I just wanted you to know that I do have the latest firmware.   I also did get a response from Moog . What’s funny , is that they sent me 2 links that are from LogicProHelp ! It’s worth noting , they are links I have seen and read many times  . Here’s his message :

 

Hi John,

Thanks for reaching out to us, sorry to hear you're having some trouble with your Subsequent 37. 

 

I'm finding a few things online that may help; have you tried these suggestions?:

 

Logic Pro Help - Sync'ing Subsequent 37 to Logic

Logic Pro Help - ARP on Sub 37 in Logic

 

[John Scalia]

Also , Jordi …I just wanted you to know that I do have the latest firmware. I also noticed I wasn’t being very clear about what setting I’m using in Logic’s midi sync section, and finally , I was able to run a few tests myself .  I was using “Song - SPP at Play Start and Stop/SPP/Continue at Cycle Jump" but when I switched to "Pattern - Quantized clock start based on pattern length" apparently that cured the loop cycle issue! The bad news is , I may have created another issue . Now , suddenly when I’m latching an arp on the Moog , it only plays one note ! This has never happened before. 
When I closed Logic and just played the Moog thru the mixer , it latched fine. I’m going to perform more tests tomorrow and see what’s happening. .

  I also did get a response from Moog . What’s funny , is that they sent me 2 links that are from LogicProHelp ! It’s worth noting , they are links I have seen and read many times  . Here’s his message :

 

Hi John,

Thanks for reaching out to us, sorry to hear you're having some trouble with your Subsequent 37. 

 

I'm finding a few things online that may help; have you tried these suggestions?:

 

Logic Pro Help - Sync'ing Subsequent 37 to Logic

Logic Pro Help - ARP on Sub 37 in Logic

 

[Jordi Torres]

13 hours ago, John Scalia said:

Thanks for doing that ! That at least gives me hope. Jordi , when you sync your synth  to Logics clock , do you use that same default setting I talked about ?

I did with both methods mentioned in this thread:

“Song - SPP at Play Start and Stop/SPP/Continue at Cycle Jump" 

"Pattern - Quantized Clock Start Based on Pattern length"
 

13 hours ago, John Scalia said:

Or are you checking any of the Mtc etc boxes ?

There's no need for that. Arpeggiators don't sync to MIDI Timecode. You need MIDI Clock for that.

 

13 hours ago, John Scalia said:

I just wanted you to know that I do have the latest firmware

Good. Thanks for confirming it.

13 hours ago, John Scalia said:

I also did get a response from Moog . What’s funny , is that they sent me 2 links that are from LogicProHelp !

It's funny indeed how they delegate support of their products to LPH. One would think they'd had copies of major DAWs to test their gear with?

One thing that I find really funny though, is a bit from their manual where they mention the FOLLOW SSP option. At some point in that paragraph they say: ...so that you can start from beats other than the first beat and (in theory) stay in sync.

That totally made my day 😂

13 hours ago, John Scalia said:

I was using “Song - SPP at Play Start and Stop/SPP/Continue at Cycle Jump" but when I switched to "Pattern - Quantized clock start based on pattern length" apparently that cured the loop cycle issue!

👍

13 hours ago, John Scalia said:

The bad news is , I may have created another issue . Now , suddenly when I’m latching an arp on the Moog , it only plays one note ! This has never happened before. 
When I closed Logic and just played the Moog thru the mixer , it latched fine. I’m going to perform more tests tomorrow and see what’s happening. .

Ok, too bad. Not sure what to tell you about that one. Try testing with other Clock sources (other DAWs or software that generated MIDI Clock) and see what you get, just in case.

J.

[John Scalia]

Many thanks to Jordi Torres for helping me with a very troubling issue: Getting the Moog Subsequent 37(external midi) to sync to Logic Pro's clock.  Here's a link to a video of how I resolved it.   It should be noted that when I say "everything Ive heard" I meant ....heard from MOOG.  Jordi T was who helped me figure this out. 

 

Edited February 7 by John Scalia

[Jordi Torres]

@John Scalia,

To help answer the question you ask in the video (Why does it work when the Clock Mode is set to Pattern Mode and not Song Mode), here's what happens behind the scenes with those tow (please keep in mind I've filtered out the Clock messages otherwise it would be difficult to see what's different):

Song Mode

 

Pattern Mode

J.

[John Scalia]

Jordi, you are brilliant. I have many peers here in Minneapolis/ St. Paul who are Synth/Keyboard savvy. This is quite a big deal , because the majority of the songs we record here are at some point infused with the Moog, namely rhythmic arpeggios. Sometimes it's a pre prod thing, but many times it's something we add into Logic after the song is well into the recording process. 

This problem has stumped many of us, including the MOOG people, for a very long time. 

I'm definitely going to pay it forward by making videos of solutions to some of these integrated problems that pop up in the world of Logic.  Thank you for helping us solve this. And thank you for your clear, organized way of communicating.  😃