"Pop Brass" patch won't download

[Tiago Rocha]

A while ago I noticed that this patch seems to be ready to download, but clicking the button doesn't do anything (so I can't use that sound at all)

The library shows that everything is installed

The patch itself is in the Logic package

Edited February 28 by Tiago Rocha

[David Nahmani]

I have it installed here, it's a patch made of the GarageBand Sampler instrument "Funk Horn Section".

[Tiago Rocha]

I have the EXS file:

And the folder:

There's 33 files inside.

But even I didn't, it wouldn't affect the state of the patch, which seems to be unavailable as if it's not installed when it is.

Can you share the patch file so I can see if my file is somehow corrupted?

[des99]

Here you go:

Pop Brass.patch.zip

It points to: 
/Library/Application Support/GarageBand/Instrument Library/Sampler/Sampler Instruments/Funk Horn Section.exs

[oscwilde]

@Tiago Rocha Does GarageBand itself (and the GB library) still exist on your system or did you ditch it (or perhaps move stuff around) to save space?

[Tiago Rocha]

2 hours ago, oscwilde said:

@Tiago Rocha Does GarageBand itself (and the GB library) still exist on your system or did you ditch it (or perhaps move stuff around) to save space?

As you can see in the image I shared, I have all the libraries installed and they are working properly. This is the only patch that behaves like this.

And even if I moved the libraries (which I didn't) as long as the patch file is in the folder, the browser shows it as available. Only when you click a patch to open it and the content is gone, will you see the warning. Similar to an EXS file. You can move all audio somewhere else or even delete it. If the EXS file is still there, you can still see it, right? When you click it to load it, then you will get the warning saying that Sampler doesn't find the samples.

The same is happening here, but the weird thing is that the file is available, but it shows as if it's not. When I click the down arrow to download it (which would maybe download it again and replace the old one), nothing happens. And again, the libraries show as being downloaded, all of them. And the fact that this is a file that resides inside the Logic package, I would have to really have the intention of moving it. There's no way to "accidentally" delete it to move it. That's why it's so weird...

[Tiago Rocha]

4 hours ago, des99 said:

/Library/Application Support/GarageBand/Instrument Library/Sampler/Sampler Instruments/Funk Horn Section.exs

I don't think this would be relevant to influence the "status" of the file. As long as the patch file is available, it shouldn't show as "downloadable", even if the library was completely removed or moved.

But I noticed something really weird...
So I downloaded your file. And renamed it Pop Brass new and renamed the other one I have Pop Brass old. When I refreshed the library, both files were there.

So I thought: well, maybe this was one of those glitches... so I deleted yours and renamed mine back to just Pop Brass. It went back to "downloadable". So I went back and just renamed the file again to Pop Brass old. It's back...

Go figure... 

Edited February 28 by Tiago Rocha

[Tiago Rocha]

4 hours ago, des99 said:

/Library/Application Support/GarageBand/Instrument Library/Sampler/Sampler Instruments/Funk Horn Section.exs

And in my case, the only Funk Horn Section.exs file I have is not in the GarageBand folder, but in the Logic folder. Again, this is not the issue anyway, but I wonder why some people have it in the folder and I have it in Logic? It's working now, but it's definitely weird why the location is different

[des99]

6 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

I don't think this would be relevant to influence the "status" of the file.

I wasn't suggesting it was - merely telling you what the patch contained and where it was pointing, in case it helps.

3 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

And in my case, the only Funk Horn Section.exs file I have is not in the GarageBand folder, but in the Logic folder.

Same here, so this is likely normal. In Logic, it's under the "Pop Horns" folder. Note - the two files are *not* identical, so perhaps they just share the same name, or one is a cut down version of the other, perhaps.

[Tiago Rocha]

Just now, des99 said:

Same here, so this is likely normal.

But you mentioned that it points to the GarageBand folder, right? I'm confused... So it points to the GarageBand folder, but the library is in the Logic folder? How is that possible?

[des99]

1 minute ago, Tiago Rocha said:

But you mentioned that it points to the GarageBand folder, right?

That particular patch points to the GB version, yes, as mentioned.

1 minute ago, Tiago Rocha said:

So it points to the GarageBand folder, but the library is in the Logic folder? How is that possible?

No, the EXS version in the Logic library is not the same file, and that particular patch doesn't use the Logic one.

[Tiago Rocha]

4 minutes ago, des99 said:

That particular patch points to the GB version, yes, as mentioned.

No, the EXS version in the Logic library is not the same file, and that particular patch doesn't use the Logic one.

Ok now I'm even more confused...

So the patch is supposed to load an EXS file that's in the GarageBand folder, right? But there's no EXS file with that name there, so how can it load the file if it's not there?

When I search for that name this is all I get:

[des99]

12 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

So the patch is supposed to load an EXS file that's in the GarageBand folder, right? But there's no EXS file with that name there, so how can it load the file if it's not there?

I thought you said you had the GB library installed, as it's in the Legacy section of the content downloader, and you say everything in there is installed...? Then it *should* be there if that's true.

I have a file named like that in precisely two places - the GB location, and the Logic location. Remember, the files are different (though I'm not going to analyse them to see exactly why).

12 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

When I search for that name this is all I get:

Then it looks like that file is missing on your system, for whatever reason, so perhaps that's the reason why the patch is greyed out.

Don't search - actually go to the above folder I quoted in Finder. Is Funk Horn Section.exs actually there, or not?

[Tiago Rocha]

25 minutes ago, des99 said:

I thought you said you had the GB library installed

I didn't say it is. The library (the image I showed in the original post) shows that everything is installed, so it's not me just saying it. There's nothing left to install.

27 minutes ago, des99 said:

Don't search - actually go to the above folder I quoted in Finder. Is Funk Horn Section.exs actually there, or not?

The file is not there. What I noticed though is that I have a folder that I created a year ago with a lot of exs files in a ZIP file that seem to be duplicates. And the file is indeed there so I guess I just moved them for whatever reason I don't remember. Maybe they were being shown twice or something, I have no clue. It was more than a year ago...

But still, this doesn't explain why the patch isn't working with the original name. Also, if the patch, when renamed, works and is supposed to point to the EXS file in the GarageBand and the file is not there (it's zipped, so it's not accessible), how is the patch loading the EXS from the Logic folder?

[des99]

8 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

The file is not there.

Well there you go, that should answer the mystery as to why it doesn't work.

8 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

And the file is indeed there so I guess I just moved them for whatever reason I don't remember.

Ah, so you were fidding with the factory content, and breaking stuff! 🙂 Don't do that! 😉

8 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

But still, this doesn't explain why the patch isn't working with the original name.

Did you put the EXS file back to it's expected location that the patch is specifically referencing? Does it work now?

8 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

Also, if the patch, when renamed, works and is supposed to point to the EXS file in the GarageBand and the file is not there (it's zipped, so it's not accessible), how is the patch loading the EXS from the Logic folder?

That's an assumption - did you check that's actually what's happening? It's possible the EXS data is stored within the patch setting (just as it's stored within the plugin state when you save a project, and patches do store an AuCO plugin state inside them, I looked at this one), and that data used is referencing that - but the Library panel is complaining because it's checking the status of the referenced file and it's not there.

I'm not 100% sure of the behaviour, and have no desire to analyse it right now, but basically, your original question of why is this patch broken seems to be because you messed with stuff that that patch content requires - ie you broke it, and you're now paying for it! 😉

Does it fix it if you put that EXS file back, or not, out of interest?

[Tiago Rocha]

27 minutes ago, des99 said:

Well there you go, that should answer the mystery as to why it doesn't work.

I guess you're not getting my point. The patch not working has nothing to do with the file being there or not.

I created a new test file:

Then created a patch using that EXS file:

Then deleted the EXS file, both from the folder and the Trash

Opened a new empty project and went to the library and refreshed it. Still there:

So having the EXS file or not, will not change the status of the patch. So for the factory patch Pop Brass, it's the same thing. It's like a Finder alias that points to a location that doesn't exist. The alias will not disappear or change how it looks just because the destination is no longer the same. Only when you click it to open it does it show the warning. 

In this case, what's weird is that the patch shows as downloadable and yet:
1 - The patch file is still in the folder, inside the Logic application itself
2 - If it's downloadable, why doesn't it download it when I click the button? And why does the library show me all content was downloaded? Shouldn't it show "incomplete"?
3 - If the EXS file was in fact causing this, which isn't, then why renaming the patch to Pop Brass new change that status?

This clearly is some issue with that file in particular. I can leave it renamed, it doesn't bother me.

27 minutes ago, des99 said:

Ah, so you were fidding with the factory content, and breaking stuff! 🙂 Don't do that! 😉

I don't do that anymore, but nothing is broken, really. I haven't experienced any issues with any presets or patches not being loaded because of those files I moved. But again, my original issue, as I just explained, has nothing to do with the EXS files.

27 minutes ago, des99 said:

Did you put the EXS file back to it's expected location that the patch is specifically referencing? Does it work now?

It was working regardless of the EXS file. The issue is with the name of the patch, not where it's pointing to. As you can see below, I moved the file, renamed the patch back to Pop Brass and see what's happening:

So yeah, there's a bug here and it's not even my file. There seems to be an issue with the name. For example, I renamed by file "Pop Brass old" again. Dragged your file to the folder (didn't rename it this time) and refreshed the library. Here's what happened:

Now my file is ok, but yours is "downloadable". Go figure...

Edited February 28 by Tiago Rocha

[des99]

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

I guess you're not getting my point. The patch not working has nothing to do with the file being there or not.

Ok - did you read my explanation that the EXS contents may well be contained within the patch? And does putting the EXS file back fix that patch in the browser or not?

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

So having the EXS file or not, will not change the status of the patch.

Ok, so the answer to my above question then presumably is "No, putting the EXS file back did not fix the patch in the browser"..?

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

In this case, what's weird is that the patch shows as downloadable and yet:

Honestly, it's not the first time we've seen weird issues with innaccessible/not downloadable content in the browser - it comes up here from time to time, and I think the content and browser is a bit buggy for some people. I've not really had any problems, but some people do.

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

1 - The patch file is still in the folder, inside the Logic application itself
2 - If it's downloadable, why doesn't it download it when I click the button? And why does the library show me all content was downloaded? Shouldn't it show "incomplete"?

Again, I haven't analysed the behaviour, but I can certainly think of reasons why you get the behaviour you see - but it would be speculation, and I'd need to investigate it fully to confirm or refute those possibilities, which isn't a good use of my time especially as this doesn't affect me at all anyway! 🙂 If you want to investigate further, do let us know what you find.

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

3 - If the EXS file was in fact causing this, which isn't, then why renaming the patch to Pop Brass new change that status?

Likely because the new name isn't matching a known content item internally, so the database status of that content item is different.

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

But again, my original issue, as I just explained, has nothing to do with the EXS files.

We don't actually know that, but it certainly could be true. Like I say, this would be back to speculation on my part, which isn't that helpful.

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

It was working regardless of the EXS file.

Oh, the patch was actually working and loading? This wasn't clear to me from the earlier posts (or maybe I missed it). Then the EXS data is almost certainly in the patch itself, as I suspected by looking at the contents in the hex editor. (I'm familiar with this because of all my plugin file format hacking for lrep).

17 minutes ago, Tiago Rocha said:

There seems to be an issue with the name.

Not the name specifically, but likely because there is an internal database entry for that patch content item, which is marked as broken somehow, and it's displayed as greyed out accordingly. And this could have happened because of the unavailability of the EXS file referenced by the patch at some point... but, well, speculation again... 😉

Have you tried a "Refresh Library" out of interest? Did that do anything?

[NoPro]

I have a problem related and was going to start a new post but for now here it is …

 

I updated logic from 10.5.1 to 10.7.9 I am constantly always never done installing all logic library sounds . There’s no way I could still need to download 33 gigs and then some …various categories too much to post. My library is on an external hardrive and was moved with 10.5.1 to save internal disc space but oh man ….anyone ? Seems I’ve re-downloaded the same sounds over and over ….should I start over and then move the sound library to an external hd? It’s really a long process and never goes smoothly …

[oscwilde]

12 minutes ago, NoPro said:

should I start over and then move the sound library to an external hd? It’s really a long process and never goes smoothly …

Perhaps.
Sounds like things may have become confused with your earlier move of the library to the external drive...and the Sound Library manager doesn't have a complete picture of what's where.

As a very long-term user I had a heap of stuff - including Jam Pack content in AIF format - stretching back decades (literally).
I ended up with a bunch of duplications in miscellaneous folders/across drives, etc. that was just wasting space - and eventually bit the bullet by manually deleting stuff and doing a full re-download.
I made backups - just in case - but haven't needed to delve into them.
 

[NoPro]

14 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Perhaps.
Sounds like things may have become confused with your earlier move of the library to the external drive...and the Sound Library manager doesn't have a complete picture of what's where.

As a very long-term user I had a heap of stuff - including Jam Pack content in AIF format - stretching back decades (literally).
I ended up with a bunch of duplications in miscellaneous folders/across drives, etc. that was just wasting space - and eventually bit the bullet by manually deleting stuff and doing a full re-download.
I made backups - just in case - but haven't needed to delve into them.
 

Do you know where I look on my internal computer for the crazy wild distributed  sound library files ? I don’t know where I’d even look on my internal HD?

[des99]

There's a post from David that illustrates where the Logic content lives:

 

[NoPro]

Thank you I’ll check in there. Appreciate the help!

[NoPro]

All I’ve ever known is “library “….but I see it kinda breaks down things ….in the file structure there ….

[des99]

There is lots of content in Logic, and it all has defined locations - sampler instruments, samples, impulse responses, plugin settings, apple loops, patches, channel strip settings, ultrabeat samples and so on and on - it's good to know where these things are stored, *especially* if you want to move bits of it around manually, rather than just letting Logic do it's thing...