playing live without a drummer, what do i need?

[Califax]

all i have right now is a macbook. we're going to be performing without a drummer...we want to use more drum machines (electronica/trance style, not actual acoustic drums).

 

i was told ot get an axiom keyboard with logic xpress 8 - hook up the keyboard to the macbook and sample from there.

 

do i need mainstage?

 

should i just get the keyboard (that has 8 drum pad triggers on it) and mainstage? or is mainstage for more electronic dependant bands?

 

if i can get by using logic xpress 8 and the keyboard to add drum machines/samples/techno beats to our band that's all we care about.

 

we have a bassist/guitarrist anyway so not like our sound isn't tight at all.

 

thanks any tips would be welcome!

 

ps: our budget is kinda tight so we don't wanna be spending thousands of dollars on this.

 

so to cut this short:

 

i am being told by some (untrustowrthy) guy at Guitarcenter:

"TO play live with rdum machines/synth, just plug in logic xpress 8 from your macbook into the keyboard, and the keyboard into the PA System. and you can peform live with all your samples/techno beats/drum machines".

 

MY question is, do i need mainstage as well? or is he right in that's all i need? cuz if that's true what's the point of having mainstage as well?

[bobbyduracel]

You can play drum samples live with ANY software that has a drum machine. Reason uses ReDrum, logic uses Ultra, etc... Dedicated drum machines are out there as stand-alone or plug-in units as well. SampleTank, Battery, etc.

 

You can assign your 8 or 16 pads to individual samples and hammer away. This can be done, although it doesn't leave room for error. by live I mean zero sequencing in advance. Does this free up your hands for other things? nope. You are a dedicated drummer at this point.

 

With Mainstage you can go into your software instrument patches and edit/manipulate the sounds until they are just what you need for that track. Maybe it's a haunting string sound or just a clean sax. Either way, you save the work after you manipulate that specific patch, and then move to the next sound. Hours, days, weeks later you have a number of sounds custom tailored for your set, in order of the songs you intend to play. When the first track is finished, you hit the foot pedal (or assigned midi key) and the program loads the next sounds to your controller for you. It takes live playing to a different (and much smoother) level.

 

I can play 10 live tracks with 1 controller without ever leaving the seat, providing I only need 3 layers or so for each track. It's a bit like switching controller lanes in your DAW, only you have already saved the individual patches ahead of time and put them in particular orders. Another difference is the ability to divide the keyboard into different "lanes" (instruments) simultaneously. I can control 3 instruments at once from my keyboard, and each instrument is exactly to my specifications (because I made them ahead of time).

 

For drums I think it's got to be nearly perfect. You load the drum computer and begin programming your sequences until you have all the pieces you need for a particular track. For example, program the "groove" of the track, and then on pattern 2 program a hi-hat pattern for accents. You can save as many patterns as the machine can hold, and in mainstage you map the patterns across the keyboard, drum pad, etc.

 

When playing live I can use the bottom 1/3 of the keyboard to control (stop/start) my various drum patterns (which I previously programmed in maintsage and saved) while using the middle 1/3 for a bass sound (which I tweaked to get it exactly right for that song), all while using the top 1/3 for a flute, synth overlay, etc.

 

The ability to manipulate the individual drum sounds in Logic is amazing indeed. PS-Mainstage uses all of the logic instruments, so if you make a nice sequenced track in the studio and you want to play it live you can just save the patches in logic, open mainstage and load them, and they are ready to go. Putting them in order helps too, b/c you never have to get up and look at the computer screen. You map the controls the way you want them for each instrument (in case you want to play with the filter on the sample while triggering it, for example).3

 

Do you need mainstage for live drums? nope. You can get away with any drum program and a midi controller as long as the sound from the computer gets out to your source. I prefer a sound card such as a Toneport b/c I can use 1/4" outs to my main mixer (and the UX2 is cheap/functional). Technically you could even get away with a 1/8" to RCA cord from the headphone plug on the computer, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

You can save drum patterns on redrum in Reason as well, and configure your midi controller to trigger those patterns, although it's a bit different to set up. The latest manual on Reason from CM details how to trigger samples to use live. It's quite helpful as well.

 

Additionally, the raw sound files used in reason do not compare to those in logic. If I remember correctly, there is something like 10-100x the data per individual sample, depending on the sample. Reason saves like 8 gigs to the hard drive, logic like 60. You do the math .

 

I recommend Mainstage/Studio if you have the cash, especially since it's bundled with Logic and Soundtrack. I have the entire box and it's been WONDERFUL. I also picked up reason 4.0 for the different instruments b/c I was familiar with the previous versions and together I must say the sonic arsenal is more than one man needs.

 

You just need a simple program with a drum sampler. I would suggest something like a PadKontrol if you are just doing drums right now. I returned my trigger finger for the Korg and couldn't be happier. i think AKAI even makes one now (MPC midi) but i haven't tried it out. The PadKontrol is 199 right now, making it a feasible option. The Axiom series are nice (so i hear), but the drum pads are an afterthought. Again, if your focus is on drums get a drum pad mid controler. They have lots of space between the pads, sensitivity is adjustable, and the Korg even has an X-Y assignable pad with roll and flam functions. DRUM MACHINE!

 

Sorry to ramble. I hope this helps. I'm new to mainstage and only recently upgraded from Express to Studio so my knowledge is VERY limited compared to many of the people on here. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Having drum patterns programmed allows me freedom to hammer away on my sampler and my other 2 keyboards simultaneously. If you just need drums then check out the various apps.

 

Logic is 599, and if you have the cash I would recommend just buying it. You'll find a use for all it can do eventually, rather than growing out of express soon after purchase. for the 400 dollar difference it's a no-brainer to me. You can do your own recordings, sequencing, etc.

 

As for midi controllers, look around. I picked up a K25 korg keyboard for under 100 dollars and my PadKontrol for 180. Together I have drums and keys. Both are solid so far, and again the drum pads on the Axiom IMHO are not up to par.

 

If you are really trying to save money, buy either of the midi controllers I mentioned above and they will come with an express version of Reason. You can register it for free online, and then pay the upgrade path for version 4.0. It's only 239. If you are primarily a band made of "real" instruments and you want to add "electronica" elements then R4 isn't a bad option. It's limited compared to Logic (understatement) but it really will do a LOT for the price.

 

I hope you find what you are looking for. It can be done either way.

[Califax]

cool i replied with a PM with a few questions! ttys!