Composing a Piano Composition

[TheBarber]

I've been making beats/instrumentals for a while now, since I always wanted to play an instrument and not just tweak until I get something soundig good out of it I bought an 88 weighted midi keyboard the Fatar VMK-188, I've learnt some good things and I can play much better now and I also can use my left hand, I've been progressing slowly because I'm learning other things like mixing and using my software in general on the side too.

 

Now I want to get into composing a piano composition in Logic 8, I've learnt the basics of reading sheet music through books, so I want to take that to my advantage. I also wanted to buy Synthogy Ivory so that I have a piano that I always can go to, because ear training CDs recommend to have just one piano sound so your ear gets used to it and you're able to determine the notes just by hearing.

 

My questions are:

1. Systematic Approach

How would one go about composing a piano composition? What is the systematic approach? What are things I've to pay close attention to? Do I record in parts, like the first 4 bar loop then the next and so on?

 

2. Notation (Sheet Music)

How can I compose and write the notation (sheet music) at the same time and that all digital? Would be possible with Logic 8's integrated notation software or would you recommend something else? I'd like to record some parts, have it written as notation and maybe write down some of the notes manually per hand too, or change them up a little and so on.

 

3. Tempo

How do you I deal with tempo? How do I handle tempo changes for example? Or do I really have to just stay strictly on the grid and on time? Is it ok to go off tempo and off the grid at some part of the composition and then back on tempo and the grid again?

 

4. Single Note Sustain Pedal

Is it possible to have single note sustian pedal on my Fatar VMK-188? Because I've seen on many compositions that some people will play one of the very low notes and they'll just tap it but the note will hold on until it releases, after they have tapped the note they play a melody in the upper octaves but those don't get sustained only the note that got tapped in the lower octaves. I think they are doing that with single note sustain pedal, how can I accomplish that with a midi controller and software?

 

 

Thanks for all the help.

[organsymphony]

I've been making beats/instrumentals for a while now, since I always wanted to play an instrument and not just tweak until I get something soundig good out of it I bought an 88 weighted midi keyboard the Fatar VMK-188, I've learnt some good things and I can play much better now and I also can use my left hand, I've been progressing slowly because I'm learning other things like mixing and using my software in general on the side too.

 

Now I want to get into composing a piano composition in Logic 8, I've learnt the basics of reading sheet music through books, so I want to take that to my advantage. I also wanted to buy Synthogy Ivory so that I have a piano that I always can go to, because ear training CDs recommend to have just one piano sound so your ear gets used to it and you're able to determine the notes just by hearing.

 

My questions are:

1. Systematic Approach

How would one go about composing a piano composition? What is the systematic approach? What are things I've to pay close attention to? Do I record in parts, like the first 4 bar loop then the next and so on?

 

2. Notation (Sheet Music)

How can I compose and write the notation (sheet music) at the same time and that all digital? Would be possible with Logic 8's integrated notation software or would you recommend something else? I'd like to record some parts, have it written as notation and maybe write down some of the notes manually per hand too, or change them up a little and so on.

 

3. Tempo

How do you I deal with tempo? How do I handle tempo changes for example? Or do I really have to just stay strictly on the grid and on time? Is it ok to go off tempo and off the grid at some part of the composition and then back on tempo and the grid again?

 

4. Single Note Sustain Pedal

Is it possible to have single note sustian pedal on my Fatar VMK-188? Because I've seen on many compositions that some people will play one of the very low notes and they'll just tap it but the note will hold on until it releases, after they have tapped the note they play a melody in the upper octaves but those don't get sustained only the note that got tapped in the lower octaves. I think they are doing that with single note sustain pedal, how can I accomplish that with a midi controller and software?

 

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

 

1) this is entirely your choice. You have to find what works for you. I personally when composing prefer to play/improvise and then when something hits me i like ill record it/notate it.

 

2) on logic, if your playing it on a software instrument, anything you record will automatically be put into the notation editor. at first I found it difficult with piano to get the stave splits right between left and right hand parts. But i got that sorted on here. Do a search for "piano stave split" or the like. Again, its all about choices, if you want to work this way that's good. If you find it better to write down chords and then play them do that.

 

3) this depends on the piece. If its purely a piano piece in a classical style, or just any solo style then you'll want to turn the metronome off to help with the expressive playing through rubato (slowing down) and whatnot. However, if your playing a piano part in a hip hop song your gonna want to keep to the grid. Dont be afraid to 'lean' however. If you want the piece to sound a bit quicker and rushing along then play sliiiigghttlyy ahead of the beat, where for a more slowed/tension building part just lean behind the beat.

 

4) no idea. sorry

 

 

i hope some of that is helpful.

 

Good luck with the piano playing!

[TheBarber]

Hey thanks for the answers so far,

 

I've tried Sibelius the overview I got seems to be cool, but it needs time to get into it as well, just like the notation software of Logic. I don't know in which one of these both should I invest the time? I tried playing with Sibeluis some stuff just played the midi keyboard and it recorded some notes but those were quantized and at full velocity.

 

In Logic I find it harder to do some stuff manually, I can't record everything on the spot perfectly I'm not that good of a player yet, I'm still figuring out and playing around, that's why I'd like to record step by step. Should I try the step input function of Logic instead, if it has one? Because recording to a midi track first doesn't work so well for me. The relation between midi track and notation is kinda confusing, I need a way to get my head around this.

 

I've looked for video tutorials of the notation software of Logic 8 but there's nothing out yet, unfortunately.

[David Nahmani]

1) For me it's always melody first, then find a left hand accompaniment that supports it nicely. I try to first get the entire melody. Once I have a solid, working melody, I can craft a left hand movement. If I start to write everything together, the melody usually isn't as strong.

 

IMO the melody should be strong enough to be sung a Capella before you move on.

[jdm11b]

Sorry, but I don't think composing is something you "learn" how to do. Any successful composer will tell you that it began naturally when they were in early childhood, and they always have new music in their head dying to be written down or recorded. A systematical approach following guidelines will produce music, but it won't be anything unique.

 

That's my $.02

[muses]

Sorry, but I don't think composing is something you "learn" how to do. Any successful composer will tell you that it began naturally when they were in early childhood, and they always have new music in their head dying to be written down or recorded. A systematical approach following guidelines will produce music, but it won't be anything unique.

 

That's my $.02

 

Yes and no, in my opinion...

 

While you are correct in terms of original inspiration, there's a lot more to composition than that, and learning technique is a huge part of it. A systematic approach can sometimes be very useful when developing an inspiration. For me, wanting to learn technique came just as naturally as having that music in my head I just had to put down. ... perhaps that's where TheBarber is at.

 

@TheBarber for your 3rd question:

No, you do not have to do anything in music. ... and Logic makes it even easier. I now completely play my stuff off the grid and beat map to my most solid performance. It gives so much more of a natural feel that I don't think I ever want to work with a steady tempo again.

[edogg]

if you're new to composing, get far away from your computer and stay there.

 

don't think about the finished project. if you're serious about composing, it'll be a long time from start to finish.

 

use a crappy tape player and improvise.

 

seek out a strong idea, a seed or germ that you wouldn't mind hearing a thousand times. build from there.

 

once you have something you like, simplify it even more than you would ever think possible.

 

be ruthless with your ideas, but don't throw them away. you may just find that an attempted chorus of once piece makes a great bridge for another.

 

make sure you can play what you're writing. if you can't, practice until you can or simplify it. there is too much music with too many notes.

 

if you're reading this, you're too close to your computer.

 

let the music take you and have fun.

[edogg]

oh, sorry. in response to question 4, if you can't just sustain the note with your hand, you probably need a sostenuto pedal. (which most pianos and most midi controllers don't have). you can obviously work around that with technology.

 

from wikipedia:

 

On a modern grand piano with three pedals, the middle pedal is usually a sostenuto pedal. It sustains only notes which are depressed at the time the pedal is depressed. It is commonly abbreviated “S.P.”, “Sost. Ped.” or “ThP.” (from the German equivalent “Tonhalte-Pedal”).

On some upright pianos, the middle pedal sustains all notes in the bass register, but this is not a true sostenuto pedal. On other uprights, the middle pedal is a practice pedal (with a locking option) which makes the sound extremely quiet beyond the standard soft pedal. This is often achieved by dropping a felt cloth between the hammers and the strings when the practice pedal is depressed.

Note that the sostenuto pedal should not be confused with the much more commonly used sustain pedal, which undamps all the strings on the piano.

[JimmyDoorlocks]

I

My questions are:

1. Systematic Approach

How would one go about composing a piano composition? What is the systematic approach? What are things I've to pay close attention to? Do I record in parts, like the first 4 bar loop then the next and so on?

 

For a first post I'm going to contradict a lot of what people are saying, but I mean your low end is what is driving your song.

 

On piano, just practice using your left hand hitting single notes, that's going to be your chord progression, so I'd get into learning a bit of theory and some basic chord progressions, I IV V I, II V I, etc. They're going to sound pretty basic and boring at first, but so many songs that sound nothing alike are composed this way.

 

If you're in 4/4, just do like, C F G C, 1 bar each, and then write some melody over it. The cool part with starting this way is you can add a ton of color to it. You can hit E or Eb, A or Ab, B or Bb, D or Db, which is going to change what key your in currently, and what keys you can change to.

 

To be fair, if you write your melody first, it does have an internal progression that all you really need to do is figure out, if you have something that is riffing on G F and A, you can use D as a bass note and you'll be doing a Dmin chord.

[JimmyDoorlocks]

2. Notation (Sheet Music)

How can I compose and write the notation (sheet music) at the same time and that all digital? Would be possible with Logic 8's integrated notation software or would you recommend something else? I'd like to record some parts, have it written as notation and maybe write down some of the notes manually per hand too, or change them up a little and so on.

 

3. Tempo

How do you I deal with tempo? How do I handle tempo changes for example? Or do I really have to just stay strictly on the grid and on time? Is it ok to go off tempo and off the grid at some part of the composition and then back on tempo and the grid again?

 

4. Single Note Sustain Pedal

Is it possible to have single note sustian pedal on my Fatar VMK-188? Because I've seen on many compositions that some people will play one of the very low notes and they'll just tap it but the note will hold on until it releases, after they have tapped the note they play a melody in the upper octaves but those don't get sustained only the note that got tapped in the lower octaves. I think they are doing that with single note sustain pedal, how can I accomplish that with a midi controller and software?

.

 

I really like your post haha.

 

2. If you really feel it necessary, the notation in Logic is fine. But honestly, unless you're a performer (here comes the purist hate) sheet music is kind of well, dead. I still use pen and paper a ton, but my comp paper generally just has the chord changes written on it, like those Real Book sheets, but even less formal than that. If I need to remember a melody I'll write it out, but honestly when you're looking at the grid it's the same thing just easier to comprehend. Whatever works best for you, but I wouldn't get caught up in all these details, getting your idea down in the grid and getting it to sound right to you is what matters, if for whatever reason you need to transcribe it to sheet music Logic does it for you.

 

3. Tempo changes are fine and easy, Logic makes it simple, and it will be reflected in your transcribed version. Just change it in your Global track. If you want some piano inspiration, especially with tempo changes and poly s#!+, check out Brad Mehldau.

 

4. Buy a sustain pedal, they're cheap and your keyboard should have a 1/4" jack on the back for it. I have no idea with your keyboard, but I bet you can mess with the ADSR settings on certain ranges, so between C1 and B2 or whatever, you can set it to sustain that way, but you won't be able to undo that unless there's some way to automate it if you want to get some legato low end.