Learning Music Making coming from being Classically Trained

[Startover]

I am going to suggest that you start a new thread. Learning Keyboard for the Sequencer is not the same endeavour as learning piano.

You are thinking like a composer, not an interpreter/performer, so ya, go with that, and enjoy. There is more than one form of success when it comes to music.

I'm guessing that you already know enough to start being effective musically. One of my teachers told me "someone can know it all and still be a bore". (I really didn't like the chuckle and the look he was giving me when he said it).

 

Talk to you in the new thread.

 

Yea, it's a good idea. I don't want to hijack the other thread with talking too much about my own experiences, hah.

 

In that other thread, I talked a little about myself and my background. Everyone approaches the creation process differently, but I seem to have a lot of trouble coming from a background of playing classical music. I used to see people use those 25-key midi keyboards and wonder how the hell they work with that?! Later I realized it is the techniques employed in the creation that really matters. Put in this context, you don't just merely play the keyboard, you actually begin the construction process with it.

 

See, what I'm lacking in my workflow is a clear sense of all the other things going on in the background. Coming up with a melody is nice, but there are so much more to it such as laying down the drums/bass, mixing, manipulating sounds, etc. I'm having such a difficult time finding my rhythm and style. Sometimes I try to be bold and experience with different sounds, but I just end up with a garbled mess with sounds that don't fit. I remember this one guy that lived in my college dorms down the hall, he had this problem. He had helicopter sounds left and right and needless to say, it was jarring to the ear. It was so awkward.

 

I'm just taking it step by step right now relearning chords and making an effort to apply bass/drums and using sounds that WORK. It sounds ridiculously simple, but I have to start somewhere. I don't regret buying a 61-key, it allows me to jam on it whenever I'm in the mood. I really do understand now that approaching the keyboard to play and to build a song are two completely different beasts.

[ski]

I used to see people use those 25-key midi keyboards and wonder how the hell they work with that?! Later I realized it is the techniques employed in the creation that really matters.

 

Not really... 25 note keyboards are good for people for whom 25 note keyboards work. But if you're coming from a classical background then chances are that you're used to a lot more keys. Suggest you not worry about what other people do and use the type of controller that you feel comfortable with. I see you have a 61 note keyboard. Fine, go with it. FWIW, you can get a lightweight 88 note controller for under $200.

 

Note that some people choose keyboards of that length purely for reasons of vanity and "style" -- they don't want to take up a lot of space; they want a "minimalistic" setup. Others simply don't have the room, so the choice of buying a larger keyboard is moot. But it's not like the smaller keyboards are necessarily less expensive than the larger ones either.

 

There's a lot more about working with limited numbers of keys than might meet the eye. You'll be constantly switching octaves to access the sounds you need. Trust me, this will become a pain in the butt in very short order. And imagine playing a line that extends beyond the range of the keyboard at any given time, i.e., you need "D" above the last C. Thus with the short keyboard you are immediately limiting your ability to create. So stick with what you have and don't worry about what other people do.

 

See, what I'm lacking in my workflow is a clear sense of all the other things going on in the background. Coming up with a melody is nice, but there are so much more to it such as laying down the drums/bass, mixing, manipulating sounds, etc. I'm having such a difficult time finding my rhythm and style. Sometimes I try to be bold and experience with different sounds, but I just end up with a garbled mess with sounds that don't fit.

 

Sounds to me like some studies in arranging would be helpful to you. This can take the form of actual formal study (whether it's pop, classical, or jazz), or you can learn on your own. Take any track (any style you want) and listen to it over and over again. Make a list of the instruments used. In a complex track you may have to "listen in the cracks" to hear everything. Even if you think you might be imagining something, write it down.

 

Next, make a very rough chart of the arrangement using a two line staff (more if necessary), making note of where instruments come in and out. Repeat this with other recordings. Then try out a track or two on your own based on your observations. One thing is clear: you're constantly going to succeed and fail when you're just starting out. But even realizing what doesn't work is a great lesson in and of itself, i.e., a success.

 

...I have to start somewhere.

 

Everyone does. Don't sweat it. Though if you want to be good at this, don't expect the path to be easy. But if you persevere it will be very rewarding.

[Nublu]

I love doing what Ski has suggested.

 

Four bar lines, Walking Bass, and Chord Progressions.

 

Four bars because if you listen to a huge number of popular songs (from every era and culture) you will also find an even larger number of four bar lines. Almost like sentences with internal phrases, and commas and breath strokes. In a relatively short period of time and with relative ease you'll see the intros verses, choruses, outros, etc.

Since this about what we put into play creatively - by walking on our own two feet - it seems to me that a walking bass line is a great place to start. Literally, one bass note per step in rhythm. We can make our steps interesting all day long... and soon, a person might find themselves building chord progressions on them.

Launch right into playing with chord progressions. Four bars at a time. Without hardly even thinking about it you will be forming phrases. You will hear the internal voices of the chords. (I find that if I try to just learn chords that I might use in some imagined future and context, within 10 minutes I'm tripping over naming conventions.)

Why would I link this to language? Because we create with language all day long and rarely second guess what we are doing. Ditto with walking. There is no reason to second guess your music and hold it against some imaginary standard. Start walking. Put a spring in your step, a swagger in your butt and impress the ladies. (Ya they're impressed... they're over there in the corner whispering "and he has a Job too." )

 

Music is an experiential knowledge. We create it, we experience it, it teaches us.

Can you see the sequencer being part of this? For me, the sequencer is a brand new day.

 

Oh ya, I nearly forgot, singing is good.

[KairaRobb]

Many people love to play music but they don't necessarily like to practice it. Practice can be tedious, frustrating, and grueling. Much like athletes must work out, musicians must practice. But that's not to say that practice can't be fun. If you enjoy playing music, you should enjoying practicing and if you don't, you're probably doing it wrong.

piano lesson videos

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

See, what I'm lacking in my workflow is a clear sense of all the other things going on in the background. Coming up with a melody is nice, but there are so much more to it such as laying down the drums/bass, mixing, manipulating sounds, etc. I'm having such a difficult time finding my rhythm and style. Sometimes I try to be bold and experience with different sounds, but I just end up with a garbled mess with sounds that don't fit.

 

You seem rather daunted and overwhelmed, as if electronic music bears no relation to classical music, but composing for and arranging, instruments is just about finding pitches and timbres that complement each other, whether it's for orchestra or synths.

 

Almost all electronic music effects have a precident in classical music; eg. for filter cutoff see brass mutes, or how Holst used dynamic reverb, cutoff and panning when he got the choir to move from behind the stage curtain in The Planets. Electronic music certainly hasn't brought anything new to the table in terms of advancing western harmony.

 

You should use your classical background to your advantage, not see it as a hinderance.

 

Perhaps it might help you to find out what wave shapes, or combination of wave shapes, orchestral instruments produce. If you have experience of arranging classical music, and know which instruments go well together in what circumstances, then cobbling a few synths together should be a breeze.