Understanding Score [SOLVED]

[charteris]

I'm trying to get to grips with Score (not the easiest of tasks)

I came across this line in the Forum and am now intrigued

 

"In the mean time it I guess it is back to the Logic Manual and Johannes Pritschel's Logic Score Editor bible"

 

Is this a book I can purchase?? My search on the internet hasn't thrown anything up.

 

Any thoughts

 

Thank you

[ski]

The spelling of his last name was wrong in that post. It's "Prischl".

 

Linky 4 U ---> http://prischl.net/LNG/

[ski]

BTW, the score editor is fairly easy once you get a few basic principles down. There are many score editor experts here on this forum, so if you have questions, ask away! But I'd strongly suggest that you start by learning and experimenting with the score editor's Quantize parameter. Read up on it in the manual as a starting point. Getting a handle on that is a key factor towards getting your score to look right.

[charteris]

Thank you for the quick response.

The book is rather old, so probably not right for Logic 9

My feeling of frustration comes from the Score Editor not doing what I want it too without much manipulation.

I study music so am not asking it to do the impossible, musically speaking.

I am getting some results although tuplets and rests have proved annoying.

 

Thanks again

[ski]

True: triplets ARE annoying. Totally do-able, but annoying

False: the Prischl book is too old to be useful with Logic 9. Quite the opposite, in fact.

 

[ski]

Questions for you...

 

• Are you step-entering notes or playing in your parts? It makes a difference...

• What kinds of problems are you having with the score not looking right. Let me guess... triplets?

 

If you want, post examples (screenshots, and no more than 800 px wide) of the problems and describe how you want them to look different. Capture the "display parameters" if you can in your screenshots.

[charteris]

Here goes....

 

I am not step entering mainly because I try to compose the pieces and sort them out on the written page.

I have attached a screen shot of what is happening.

The group of 5 should really be semi quavers followed by two groups of quavers,

as you can see it just comes out wrong.

I had the quantize on 16.

I would like to start with just a plain sheet of music paper and enter notes/rests as I go along. Logic seems to be trying to hard to help and it gets in the way.

Sorry but is that too simplistic of me am I missing something here??

 

I also emailed Johannes Prischl and his response is as follows:

 

No, I don't plan to update my book for Logic 9. Someday I would like to update it, but only if major improvements in the score part are implemented, do that it's really worth investing the time and energy this would require.

 

However, most of what is in the book still applies to the current Logic Pro version. In the score part Emagic/Apple didn't change much when going from 5 to 6 and changed nothing in the L7 updates, so about 95% (or even more) still apply to Logic 7. This basically also applies to Logic 8 and 9. The general user interface changed quite a bit in Logic 8, but the menus, parameter boxes etc. in the score window are still the same, except for some optical face lifts. The only real functional addition are context menus in many places. In Logic 9 guitar notation functionality was improved (especially chord grids and tablature notation), but the rest of the scoring functions more or less remained unchanged.

Many of the screenshots printed in my book look rather old, although what they contain is still the same. As long as you keep that in mind, the book should be pretty helpful. The supplementary files are in Logic 8 format, which can be opened without problems by Logic 9.

 

 

So as you say still very relevant

 

I really appreciate your help

 

Thank you

[charteris]

Sorry but a another question just occurred.

I have this Horn part (not mine) when I try to carry the E flat over into the next bar I want a quaver and semi quaver joined followed by a semi quaver rest. I don't seem to be able to get this, I keep being given a crotchet.

 

Any help would be very welcome

 

Regards

 

Paul

[Beer Moth]

Select that note and under the Attributes drop down choose Interpretation>Defeat.

[Beer Moth]

In the first example how are you inputting the notes?

Rests are done automatically,and if you want to see them sometimes you need to defeat interpretation.

Relatively rare to have to put them in manually.

[charteris]

You only have a group of 4 semi quavers, I wanted 5 in the time of 4 and my two groups of quavers following have been split up in a strange way. Musically your's would play differently to mine which is not what I am after.

The tuplets behave in a strange way.

I am inputting the notes manually by dragging across from the part box

 

Regards

[Beer Moth]

That's why I asked as it wasn't clear...

You mean like this?

[ski]

Are you in 4/4 or 3/4? Looks like 3/4 to me. But here are your choices for both time sigs...

 

 

[ EDIT: Great minds think alike and such... ]

[Beer Moth]

Are you in 4/4 or 3/4? Looks like 3/4 to me. But here are your choices for both time sigs...

 

 

[ EDIT: Great minds think alike and such... ]

Didn't spot that cos of the 'jumble'!

 

 

And I've got an extra Fsharp in there....

[charteris]

Ooops sorry, yes it is in 3/4 forgot to mention such a small thing!!!!!

 

Ski, your version two is quite correct for me, now why can't I do that????

 

Please help, again....

[ski]

Ooops sorry, yes it is in 3/4 forgot to mention such a small thing!!!!!

 

Ski, your version two is quite correct for me, now why can't I do that????

 

Please help, again....

 

 

OK, here's what you do... Try this in a blank measure, or erase what you have in that measure (for the 5-let) and...

 

• open the toolbox, hold CMD, and select the pencil tool. Release the CMD key. The cursor should now be a pointer. Hold CMD and it should be the pencil.

 

• using the pointer, select a 32nd note from the partbox (more on "why a 32nd note?" later). Hold CMD (pencil) and enter that note on the downbeat of the measure

 

(from this point forward you'll be selecting with the pointer and entering things with the CMD/pencil tool)

 

• partbox: select the "tuplet tool" -n-

 

• enter that right on top of the note. You will now get a dialog box. Select the appropriate values for a 5:4 tuplet, 16th notes, close the box

 

• select the 32nd note from the partbox and enter one at each position of the tuplet. This may take some practice to find where you have to aim the pencil tool to enter a note at a given position, but watch the yellow help tag to show you the positions. Note that it's not important that you enter notes exactly in the order played; the tuplet "definition" will provide a kind of an invisible grid or slot for you to enter each of 5 notes in that tuplet's space.

 

Voila!

 

Finally... Why 32nd notes? It's recommended that when entering tuplets manually like this that you use a note value that's smaller than the rhythmic value of the tuplet. So for 16th note 5-tuplets you'd use 32nd notes, or, for a series of 8th note triplets you might select 16th notes. Now, this isn't a hard and fast rule, but experimentation will bear out how useful this convention is or not.

[Beer Moth]

Drat!

[charteris]

To both of you again a 1000 thank you's

 

Please come and do a masterclass in the UK

[ski]

To both of you again a 1000 thank you's

 

Please come and do a masterclass in the UK

 

You're welcome (to the tune of 500, with the other for Herr Moth)!

 

I'd l-o-v-e to come to the UK / Europe to do some classes, especially on the score editor. If there were enough demand I'd consider it.

[Beer Moth]

What are your Masterclasses like when you've got a hangover?

[ski]

What are your Masterclasses like when you've got a hangover?

 

Pretty rough. Usually I commandeer one student to hold me up.

 

 

Oh, you mean YOU?

 

[Beer Moth]

Was thinking more like both!

[ski]

If we're drinking beer then I'd just have to sit the class out. But if it's cognac I could prolly drink on the job and still be coherent. Mmmm... cognac...

 

 

No, no drinking until after the class is over. See, I'm just soooo responsible, aren't I?

 

 

Cheers Guys!

 

-=sKi=-

[lookatthisguy]

Not entirely on topic, but I have to give you guys credit. The Score Editor is a beast I haven't tamed (though to be fair, I haven't really tried much). When it comes to scores, everything I do is in Finale, or by hand if I want to feel vintage or if it's just a simple part. I can't imagine that learning curve…

[ski]

Not entirely on topic, but I have to give you guys credit. The Score Editor is a beast I haven't tamed (though to be fair, I haven't really tried much). When it comes to scores, everything I do is in Finale, or by hand if I want to feel vintage or if it's just a simple part. I can't imagine that learning curve…

 

The score editor has, oh, about 4 or 5 things that you have to kind of get used to. After that it's pretty simple, particularly if you've played your parts in (it's pretty darn good at interpreting realtime playing and producing a readable score from it without too much additional tweaking. And depending on the rhythmic values you're playing, even somewhat out-of-time playing can appear as if it were correctly notated).

 

I think the one thing some people get thrown by is the fact that Logic automatically writes in rests for you. So if you played or entered a quarter note on a downbeat and wanted three beats of rest afterwards, you're done! You wouldn't then have to manually draw in rests for 2, 3, and 4. But that behavior throws some people. Fortunately there's a way to disable that.

 

So yeah, the score editor's got quirks and stuff. But on the flip side, I've made several concerted efforts over the years to get into Finale and just wanted to tear my hair out. So I'll continue to walk on hot coals while you continue walking on broken glass