Have far into the "red" can Logic's meter be pushe

[studiologic]

I have always tried to keep my meter from going into the "red." However, recently I was able to get my hands a some major label tracks and found them to be significantly into the red without sounding too squashed. So how much more headroom do I have to work with? Any advice would be helpful!

[redlogic]

If I remember correctly, you have about 1,500 dB of dynamic range on individual channels using 32 bit floating point.

 

Keep the Stereo Out at or under 0.0 dB though. That's where the signal enters the "Real World" at 24 bit fixed point.

 

Google for entire libraries full of additional info.

[FlowerPower]

So how much more headroom do I have to work with?

More than you think. If it sounds good, it sounds good.

[Olisidecar]

Logic's tracks are indeed 32 bit floating point, so will not overload when in the red (although the case may be different for pre-fader metering). As already pointed out, the stereo Out 1-2 is the point at which audio enters the 24 bit realm, and red lining this will almost certainly lead to distortion.

[Mr. V]

Ashermusic and others will say that keeping all meters out of the red will yield a more open, better sounding mix.

 

So I route all of my channel strips to a "Mix Out" aux that feeds the main outputs. That way it's easy to adjust the whole mix with one fader rather than having to adjust many channel strips 'cause one of them is into the red.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Logic's tracks are indeed 32 bit floating point, so will not overload when in the red...

 

Unless you have fixed point plugins on the channel strip. Then you need to be aware of how much signal you're putting through it.

[bugscoe]

So I route all of my channel strips to a "Mix Out" aux that feeds the main outputs. That way it's easy to adjust the whole mix with one fader rather than having to adjust many channel strips 'cause one of them is into the red.

 

I like this tip but if I understand correctly (from the below document) simply lowering the master output will give exactly the same results.

 

Good thread since I've been scratching my head a little bit in sorting out how Logic handles levels/mixes. I'm new to this program and used DP for ever and don't remember having the same "in the red" levels using some of the same dry drum sounds I'm using.

 

For example, I have a kick and snare both sampled off of commercial pop CD's- pop them in as audio tracks in DP at unity and no overload but at unity in LP, I'm getting overload. So I'm assuming LP has a lot more headroom than the meters indicate.

 

http://www.popmusic.dk/download/pdf/levels-in-digital-audio.pdf

[Olisidecar]

Logic's tracks are indeed 32 bit floating point, so will not overload when in the red...

 

Unless you have fixed point plugins on the channel strip. Then you need to be aware of how much signal you're putting through it.

 

A-ha! Yes! Quite right, I'd forgotten about that

[redlogic]

Unless you have fixed point plugins on the channel strip. Then you need to be aware of how much signal you're putting through it.

 

It also matters if you use the I/O plug-in with any outboard gear in your setup.

[Ashermusic]

I have no scientific explanation for it but my experience has taught me that if I control the amount of level going through a channel strip at the source i.e. a sofysynth's output, compressor input/output etc. so that most of the tracks are not going wildly into the red, then my mix sounds better than if I simply pull down the output fader.

 

Maybe it is just that it forces me to pay more attention to detail, Maybe it is because I use so many 3rd party plug-ins and some even though they are floating point are possibly not that well-coded. I don't know.

 

But when all is said and done, my recommendation is that one spend the time treating mixing in Logic more like the way we have to in fixed point and analog systems rather than simply relying on pulling down the output fader or slapping a compressor/limiter on it.

[studio431]

great question by the OP. been dealing with this a lot lately.

[Eriksimon]

I have no scientific explanation for it but my experience has taught me that if I control the amount of level going through a channel strip at the source i.e. a sofysynth's output, compressor input/output etc. so that most of the tracks are not going wildly into the red, then my mix sounds better than if I simply pull down the output fader.

 

Maybe it is just that it forces me to pay more attention to detail, Maybe it is because I use so many 3rd party plug-ins and some even though they are floating point are possibly not that well-coded. I don't know.

 

But when all is said and done, my recommendation is that one spend the time treating mixing in Logic more like the way we have to in fixed point and analog systems rather than simply relying on pulling down the output fader or slapping a compressor/limiter on it.

 

+1

 

There are certain advantages to actually knowing what you're doing, yes...

[Mr. V]

For example, I have a kick and snare both sampled off of commercial pop CD's- pop them in as audio tracks in DP at unity and no overload but at unity in LP, I'm getting overload. So I'm assuming LP has a lot more headroom than the meters indicate.

 

http://www.popmusic.dk/download/pdf/levels-in-digital-audio.pdf

 

I don't have an explanation for the level discrepancy between DP and Logic.

 

Are the kick and snare stereo or mono?

 

Same Pan Law in DP and Logic?

 

For comparison sake, you could create an empty audio region, insert the Test Oscillator (Channel Strip insert>Utility>Test oscillator.) Set the level or pick a preset. Bounce In Place (Control-B). Open that file in DP to see if it reads the same dB level.

[MarkLambert]

You do of course want to also be careful about not overloading you A to D audio converters on the way in to logic. You can occasionally hit red on the way in with out hearing distortion but if you go very far over you will hear it and that cannot be fixed later by turning down any faders.

ml