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Environment: midi in/out switch for synths that midi loop?


JT3_Jon

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Hello Logic guru's,

 

I'm running a WX5 midi controller connected to a Yamaha VL70m sound module, and unfortunately the VL70m sound module does not have a "local on / off" mode, which means that if I keep the midi in and midi out plugs into my midi interface, I get a midi loop as soon as I play a note through logic. My current work around is to unplug the midi output from my midi interface when I'm recording, and then re-plug in the midi output and unplug the midi input when I'm mixing. Obviously this is a hassle (which has in fact kept me from using the VL70 for years) but seeing the wizardry that some have been able to do with there Logic Environments has given me hope!

 

Is there a way to create some sort of midi in/out switch that can I can turn on/off instead of having to physically unplug & replug my midi ports? I'm trying to figure it out on my own in Logic right now and would LOVE some direction / guidance if its possible.

 

Thanks in advance for the help and reply!

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Thanks Ski. I remember trying this in past logic versions and something was funky about it that made me stop. It also seems its not possible to do this for a "external midi instrument," which is how I would prefer to use my VL70m, as I plan on using logic plugs to process the incoming sound.

 

I'll try some tests and see what happens...

 

on a side note, what do you do if you have two instruments without midi thru functions? :roll:

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As to your side note, you basically do this a lot: :roll:

 

:lol:

 

Questions for you...

 

 

1. Do you have a multi-port MIDI interface? If so, which one?

 

2. Do you need to get MIDI out from the VL70m for any reason, like sysex dumps?

 

3. Does the VL70m have a "MIDI Echo" function (this is not a delay function but a kind of MIDI Thru function).

 

4. Your WX5 has a standard 5-pin DIN MIDI output, correct?

 

 

I'll look forward to your reply.

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WOW! Perhaps this is the weirdness I was experiencing. If I select this option and now go to record a new midi part over the old one created on the VL70m, as soon as I hit record enabled button, the midi from the VL70m is playing through the new instrument track! Tried with both the "SysEX w/ midi thru function" checked and unchecked and same result.

 

Any ideas?

 

edit: you asked your questions while I was posting. HaHa! So here are the answers:

 

1. MOTU Micro Express (4 in - 6 out)

 

2. Midi out from the VL70m is due to me having a WX5 connected directly to it via its WX input (special cable). So I need to have midi out in order to record the midi parts being played, and midi in in order to trigger the sounds.

 

3. No "Midi Echo" unfortunately.

 

4. It does, but when I hook it up this way I need additional power cables, which makes it a drag. It also doesn't transmit as much data via 5-pin midi as it does through its WX connected, and thus is recommended by Yamaha to use the WX connection when played in conjunction with the VL70m.

 

Perhaps this is just a weird piece of equipment and I'll have to get use to unplugging and plugging in the midi cables. :-( unfortunately

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Ah, we're cross posting.

 

OK, this should be easy as pie.

 

1. Connect your WX5's MIDI out directly to an input on your MIDI interface.

2. Connect an output of your MIDI interface to the VLM's MIDI input.

3. In AMS, create a new device that represents the VLM, but connect only an output cable from your interface to the VLM.

 

Assign the VLM to a track.

 

That's it, you're done!

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OK, didn't read the part about the MIDI data and the power supply.

 

Yes, there's another way to make this work (I think) so hold on for a while while I think about this.

 

That aside, the easiest way for you to deal with this is to hook things up the way I suggested above without using any of the malarky from that MIDI settings pane (put it back to "off").

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Ah, we're cross posting.

 

OK, this should be easy as pie.

 

1. Connect your WX5's MIDI out directly to an input on your MIDI interface.

2. Connect an output of your MIDI interface to the VLM's MIDI input.

3. In AMS, create a new device that represents the VLM, but connect only an output cable from your interface to the VLM.

 

Assign the VLM to a track.

 

That's it, you're done!

 

Yeah, unfortunately this is not recommended by Yamaha as the WX5 is much more expressive using its actual WX connection through the VL70m than via 5-pin midi. :(

 

Thanks again for your help trouble shooting this! Its very much appreciated!!

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You're welcome! Couple more questions for you, and maybe we can get this to work after all...

 

1) does the VLM have selectable receive channel, or does it operate in "omni mode"?

 

2) is the unit multi-timbral (which would negate the above question, but still, would be good to know)

 

3) do you know how to solder? (serious question)

 

Best,

 

Ski

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Oh, gawd, don't leave us HANGING like that!!!

 

C'mon, what info is on page 99?

 

Something about.... local off maybe hmmm maybe hmmm maybe? Something to potentially diminish opportunities for doing some interesting environment shenanigans, or forestalling JT from enjoying the strangely enjoyable odor of melting lead and rosin?

 

:mrgreen:

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You're welcome! Couple more questions for you, and maybe we can get this to work after all...

 

1) does the VLM have selectable receive channel, or does it operate in "omni mode"?

 

2) is the unit multi-timbral (which would negate the above question, but still, would be good to know)

 

3) do you know how to solder? (serious question)

 

Best,

 

Ski

 

1. Well, it has a "transmit" channel, which I have selected to channel 1. Also, if I change modes, it has midi channel available, which I've tried on 1 as well.

 

2. The unit is strange because its monophonic, but has a "poly mode" for "future compatibility," but this is switched off.

 

3. No

 

Did you sound canvas come with a manual? If so, what info is on pg 99?

 

Yeah. I've read the manual and I tried switching the "Note Filter" mode in the system settings to channel 1, but it has no effect (still getting the midi loop) Here is what the manual says about this NoteFilter (incase I might be missing something, as it would seem this SHOULD work?!):

 

"This parameter can be used to prevent MIDI note on/off messages received on specific channel from being re-transmitted via the MIDI OUT connector. Select the channel to be filtered out, or "thru" to allow all data to pass."

 

I have it set to Channel 1 - still get a midi loop when I plug both the midi in/out into my MOTU Micro Express.

 

Thanks again for the help Ski and Shiver!! BTW ski, what the heck are you doing up so late?! And I thought I was a night owl!! :D

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I am certain that if Ski were there with you, your problems would be solved within minutes. However, I would personally rather not tinker with soldering/unsoldering anything unless it needed fixed.

 

Now back to the canvas ...

 

:?

 

Why are you even bothering with it? Do you not like the sounds Logic has to offer?

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Aw, thanks Shiv!

 

Actually, what I was going to propose was building a simple (passive) MIDI switch as a last resort.

 

@JT, I'm up late working on a project and my whole body clock is turned around more than ever. It's weird, but I'm getting a lot done. Anyway, curious to see what you have to say in response to Shiv's questions.

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I'm writing songs that I would like to play live, and if I thus I'm trying to use sound modules when I can. In the past I gave up and went with logic sounds for their ease of use, and it looks like I'll end up doing it again.

 

No big deal, I was just curious if there was a way to solve this problem via Logic environment. Apparently there isn't, and it probably not worth the time to do in the end anyway.

 

:(

 

Thanks for the attempts though guys! Very much appreciated!!

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OK, I think I got it.

 

Attached is a file for you to try. And here's the setup:

 

• WX5 MIDI Out into VL70m MIDI In

• VLM MIDI Out to interface MIDI Input (port doesn't matter)

• MIDI Out Port (___of your choosing___) to the VL70m MIDI Input.

Set the port on the "real VLM" instrument in Logic to this port.

 

In the top picture you see the whole scheme. There are four elements:

 

1) a dummy "front end" instrument which you'll assign to a track in the Arrange. MIDI from this track will feed this dummy instrument. Note that its port is set to OFF (see second picture).

 

2) MIDI received by that instrument will feed into the cable switcher which is disguised as an on/off button. If that switch is on, it feeds MIDI to the instrument called "real VLM". You will have to set the port (see the Inspector in the first screenshot) to the port on your interface which is feeding MIDI to your VL70m.

 

[ BTW, the reason I'm having you assign a dummy instrument to a track instead of the cable switcher directly is to give you the normal look of a MIDI instrument in the Arr. Its fader, panpot, etc., will function just as you expect. If you had the cable switcher assigned to the track then you wouldn't have those controls. ]

 

3) if the switch is off, MIDI coming into Logic from the VL70m to the track will be dead-ended to the monitor. This will prevent a feedback loop from occurring.

 

• For recording, turn the switch off. For playback, turn the switch on.

 

I don't have any gear in my studio that's similar to yours, so I can't test this out. But it should work all the same. Please post back and let me know how it all pans out.

 

Best,

 

Ski

VLM.logic.zip

2060552507_Picture22.jpg.59d9873601ef5f5bb76dfaf3fdc4f2f8.jpg

425706933_Picture21.jpg.b36a188807b8158d320d69fa2d4177e2.jpg

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Hey Ski.

 

Thanks for this environment!! I tried it out, and there is a slight problem. It will record all my automation just fine (in this case breath and pitch bend) but no actual midi NOTES are recorded. I made sure the switch was "off" when recording.

 

Any ideas?

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I just tested it out recording notes and some CC info and it works fine. Must be something on the VL70m end of things [edit] or something whacky going on in your clicks/ports layer.

 

1) when you play on the WX5, do you see notes appear in the MIDI monitor in Logic's transport?

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Yeah, it was the VL70m. I had the "note thu" mode off. :oops: Turn this on and I can record midi notes. yeay! (odd how it still recoreded midi CC though...)

 

However, when I playback and turn the button on, I STILL get a midi feedback loop!! This is true both with Logics settings -> midi -> general -> Midi thur set to "Real VLM" or "no output."

 

I would have thought this would have worked (in fact, this is what I was trying to do on my own!) Weird!!

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Ah...

 

Try this to avoid the feedback loop: turn off the "R" button on your track, or, switch to a track with a different instrument assignment. Let me know if that works to fix the feedback loop because if it does then I'll revise the environment to deal with that (hopefully!)

 

-=sKi=-

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I'm so STUPID!!! I remembered that my WX5 sends midi data when on, and all I have to do to avoid these midi loops on playback is to turn it off the WX5 when I'm done recording!! LOL!!

 

So my original environment switch would have worked (I did a similar thing as yours without the "dummy" track) If I just would have turned off the darn WX5 during playback, I probably could have avoided this whole thread! So SORRY!!

 

Well, since I started the thread I might as well ask, is it possible to get this same functionality with a external midi instrument? I'm assuming I can if I route the external midi instrument into the "MIDI to VLM" switch instead of using the dummy midi track? (Edit: This works)

 

I'm going to give this a shot and will report back. Thanks again for all your help and I'm again sorry I missed something so obvious as that!! I feel so bad!!

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Ok, thread back on! I found a new problem! :shock:

 

Ok, So I can now record and playback my VL70m fine, but now I want to record a new part over top. So I create an instrument track, load a piano, record enable the track, playback the song and the VL70m midi is playing through both the VL70 and the piano instrument in logic!!

 

Any ideas on how to fix this one? I have no cue why this is even happening if the ultimate destination (Real VLM) is set to port 1!

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No problem buddy! Please take care of your own work first! There will be plenty of time for my logic issues later. :D

 

Again, I really appreciate all the help! If there is anything I can do for you please dont hesitate to ask.

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