creating a multi-timbral instrument & the environment.

[xenon20]

I want to add a multi-timbral instrument with 8 tracks in the arrange area (which reference one channel strip in my mixer and once instance of my instrument) with ascending midi channels 1-8 which each trigger a different output. I know I can do this by creating a multi-timbral instrument in the new tracks dialog, but when switching to the environment I note that this creates eight instrument strips each loaded with an instance of the instrument.

 

I was told in another thread that it was not neccesary to add extra objects in my environment, and I could use the New with Same Channel Strip/Instrument command which would stop these objects being created, but when I do that I find that I am not able to set each tracks midi number in an ascending order - they are all tied to the same midi channel.

 

So if I want to use ascending midi channels do I have to create a multi-timbral software instrument from the new tracks dialog and therefore add these objects in my environment?

 

If so, is that a problem / disadvantage?

 

Xenon

[buzwah]

Wasn't this already answered here?

[ruari]

I want to add a multi-timbral instrument with 8 tracks in the arrange area (which reference one channel strip in my mixer and once instance of my instrument) with ascending midi channels 1-8 which each trigger a different output. I know I can do this by creating a multi-timbral instrument in the new tracks dialog, but when switching to the environment I note that this creates eight instrument strips each loaded with an instance of the instrument.

 

This is normal, you have created 8 lanes in the arrange window which in the environments mixer view will give you 8 corresponding channel strips with ascending MIDI channels (you can check which MIDI channel is being used in the inspector View>Inspector). If you look at the arrange windows mixer (press x) & select arrange view you will only have 1 corresponding channel strip, this is the single instance waiting to receive all the different MIDI channels.

 

I was told in another thread that it was not neccesary to add extra objects in my environment, and I could use the New with Same Channel Strip/Instrument command which would stop these objects being created, but when I do that I find that I am not able to set each tracks midi number in an ascending order - they are all tied to the same midi channel.

 

When using the New with same channel strip/instrument command you will need to open the inspector in the arrange window, select that lane then change the MIDI channel from there to the one you require. There will be no new strips in the environment if you do it this way.

 

There is a New with next MIDI channel command that would cut out that step but you would need to make sure the first lane is set to channel x (it's usually All by default). You will generate a new strip in the environment doing it this way.

 

So if I want to use ascending midi channels do I have to create a multi-timbral software instrument from the new tracks dialog and therefore add these objects in my environment?

 

No, if you keep track of which MIDI channel is being fed by which lane in the arrange window you can use either of the commands mentioned above.

 

I think in this case the environment is a bit of a red herring & is causing unnecessary confusion, for what you are asking about here you could just ignore the environment altogether & work in the arrange view with the mixer window open at the bottom & the inspector pane open on the left. From there you can get all the info you need.

 

See my attached picture, lane 6 is selected & the inspector pane tells us that lane 6 is sending out to Inst 1 on MIDI channel 6, to change that you would just click & choose a different channel

[xenon20]

When using the New with same channel strip/instrument command you will need to open the inspector in the arrange window, select that lane then change the MIDI channel from there to the one you require. There will be no new strips in the environment if you do it this way.

 

The first screenshot shows that it hasn't created any new strips in the environment but the midi channels are all linked - if I change one then they are all changed to that same value. I'm pretty sure thats what the white strips that run down the left hand side of the track lanes represent?

 

The second screenshot shows where I set up RMX multi-timbrally via the new tracks dialog which allows the sequential midi channels (and the white strips are not present) but the extra strips are created in the environment area.

 

Whats so wrong with these objects in the environment area anyway?

 

I appreciate your support

 

Xenon

[ruari]

What happens if you use New with next MIDI channel?

[xenon20]

The midi channels then run in sequence but the strips are created in the environment. (same situation as setting up multi-timbrally through the new tracks dialog).

 

I think i'm going to have to just leave it set up via the new tracks dialog with the objects in the environment.

 

Xenon

[camillo jr]

Here's what I do. I get 8 ascending midi channels and no extra strips in the environment. It's more complicated than using the track menu but I can get this happening in about half a minute with key commands helping along.

 

Environment mixer window:

New > Multi-Instrument.

Now click the first 8 channels in the MI to activate them. (I always have one ready to go, and uncabled, in the environment mixer window.)

 

With the text tool, click on the name at bottom of the MI to name it so it's easy to find back in the Arrange. IE "Drums".

 

Cable it to the channel strip where Stylus/whatever is living. You'll get a dialogue asking to remove the channel's port setting. Click Remove.

 

Arrange:

 

Select the MI's channel

Now, New with Same Channel Strip/Instrument command to create another version of the same channel.

 

Right-click the new channel: Reassign Track > Mixer > "Drums" > midi channel.

 

Choose channel 2 (channel 1 is taken by the main instance).

 

Now with the key command New with Next Channel strip instrument you can bang off the other 6 channels very quickly.

 

I actually prefer this method to using the track menu.

[xenon20]

This method achieves being able to setup the instrument so there are no strips in the environment and also ascending midi channels but when I click each lane in the arrange window it won't trigger the respective output in RMX. They all seem to trigger output A even though each lane is assigned to a different midi channel - I was expecting each lane would trigger outputs A-H which have been assigned in RMX.

 

I am still trying to understand why it is a bad idea to have several strips all relating to the same instrument in my environment as in my screenshot above. Is this in therory opening 8 instances of the plugin even though there is only one in the arrange mixer

 

All good learning!

Thanks

 

 

Xenon

[fader8]

I am still trying to understand why it is a bad idea to have several strips all relating to the same instrument in my environment as in my screenshot above. Is this in therory opening 8 instances of the plugin even though there is only one in the arrange mixer

No. Those are just displayed aliases of the same instrument channel strip object, but with one caveat. Logic does this to help you with MIDI channelization when you're working in the environment. For example, Let's say I want to simultaneously arpeggiate only two instruments within a kontakt multi that has 8 instruments, all set to receive on different MIDI channels. Create one arp object and cable it to two of the eight channel strips in the environment. Drag the arp to the arrange to create a track. Select that track, press play, and now you are playing just those two instruments arpeggiated.

 

It didn't matter what MIDI channel the arp was sending since the instrument channel strip objects rechannelize it for you. Handy.

[xenon20]

Those are just displayed aliases of the same instrument channel strip object

 

So there is no extra load upon my computer by doing it this way then?

[fader8]

So there is no extra load upon my computer by doing it this way then?

Nothing you'd need to be concerned about. The disadvantage is that it clutters up your mixer environment. But you can always hide them on another layer if you want.

 

For background: When objects in the environment, such as a channel strip, have the same name as in your pic showing "Inst 2" then they will always be the same object, fundamentally. That's the whole idea of object oriented programming.

[camillo jr]

OK, for starters, what fader8 said.

 

So, no matter which method you use to create those midi channels, you'll have midi channels that you can play separately but only one audio output for all of them. (Workaround coming up.)

 

It's tempting to think of those midi channels as outputs but in fact they are only inputs for the midi signals from your controller. If you want separate audio outputs, you'll need to create several aux channels, which can be done easily via the plus sign at the bottom of the channel strip of the main instance of Stylus/Kontact/Ultrabeat etc.

 

You'll also need to assign the midi channels inside Stylus to particular outputs.

 

It's also tempting to think that you can control volume and panning of individual channels via the midi channels but this is not the case in Logic because by default, all volume and panning data are aimed at the main instance. So if you need individual volume and panning control that can be done via the auxes. (And of course, you can pan and adjust relative volumes from within most multitimbral instruments using their own controls. But this is not the same as being able to automate those controls from the Arrange.)

[xenon20]

Superb!

 

Thanks to all who have helped me to better understand this subject.

 

Xenon

[camillo jr]

You're welcome!