Triplets... extending time sig by a 12th note?

[Devon8822]

Ok, so I have myself in a strange situation that seems to happen a lot with the music I write and being compatible with notation software or Logic.

 

I am trying to map out the time signatures for my click track in order to record a song.

 

So in this part of a the song it switches from 4/4 to 13 triplets (13/12). The prior bar 4/4 is actually triplets too but I just keep it in 4/4 because counting 12/12 triplets is easy in 4/4. The thing is, that this next part has one extra note making it 13/12, and I don't know how to fit that extra note in the bar in Logic. Surely there is a way?

 

I think as a last resort another option could be to set it for 13/16, and change the tempo to be relative to having the beats in the same place in 4/4, though I am retarded with math so I have no idea even how to begin with that.

 

Some help would truly be appreciated this has been destroying my head for the 24 hours.

[Beer Moth]

No such thing as 12/12.That's 12/8,counted in four.

If you want 13 groups of 3 (13 beats) that depends on what you want.

It could be 2 bars of 4 beats and one of 5,or 3,3,3 and 4 or whatever.

(Or indeed one of 39/8).

[gribit]

Devon... I'd like to help you... but... when you write 12/12... do you mean a time signature of 12/8...? (simile at 4 triplets in a bar of/in time 4/4?)

...and 13/12... are 5 triplets in a bar with a signature of 5/4...? ...15/8... ?

 

Sorry...

 

(edit: Ops! Beer Moth... you have been faster than me!)

[Devon8822]

Thanks guys, I am aware that 13/12 is an irrational meter.

 

Here is the bar I am trying to make:

triplet-triplet-triplet-triplet-one note from a triplet

 

so its 4 triplets +1

and each note in a triplet is a 12th note (hence why triplets are uneven/irrational)

 

Get what i'm saying?

Edited November 8, 2011 by Devon8822

[CarlosUnderground]

Move the playhead to were you want to change meter, double click on the time signature slot in the bottom transport bar and write the desired values(13/12). Then move the playhead were it goes back to 4/4 and repeat as much as necessary.

[Devon8822]

Move the playhead to were you want to change meter, double click on the time signature slot in the bottom transport bar and write the desired values(13/12). Then move the playhead were it goes back to 4/4 and repeat as much as necessary.

 

Doesn't work you cannot set the denominator to 12

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Move the playhead to were you want to change meter, double click on the time signature slot in the bottom transport bar and write the desired values(13/12). Then move the playhead were it goes back to 4/4 and repeat as much as necessary.

 

Logic won't give you a note value of one 12th, so this won't work. There is no point I can see to try and complicate time signatures like this, beaming and score notes should be enough to make your intention of the timing clear.

 

Follow Beer Moth's advice, he is (of course) totally correct.

Edited November 8, 2011 by Rev. Juda$ Sleaze

[Devon8822]

Ok, I think I might've figure out a solution, can someone confirm?

 

I just set the time signature (where it switches form 4/4) to 12/8, and multiplied the original tempo by 1.5 (52 x 1.5 = 78), so now the tempo changes when the time signature changes and fit within the same period of time, so its as if I was playing 12/12 at a tempo of 52, right. Than I added an 8th note (one 8th note at 78tempo = a 12th note at 52tempo) to make 13/8 at a tempo of 78.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Seems right to me

 

Does it sound right to you? That's the only thing that matters, ultimately.

[ski]

There is no such meter as 12/12. That's because there are no "12th" notes. Sure, in Logic and other DAWs, 8th note triplets are expressed as "12" but when talking about musical terminology like time signatures, no such thing as "12" exists. The denominator of a time signature can only ever be multiples of 2. Here are some examples:

 

2/2

4/4

2/4

3/8

7/8

12/8

3/16

[Beer Moth]

Looks to me like you need to make the 4/4 a 12/8,then 13/8.

You'll need to adjkust the tempo as Logic doesn't do dotted 1/4 note beats

 

You can sort the grouping as you please so you get 3,3,3,4 or whatever.

 

 

Triplets are not irrational btw. A time sig of 12/π,however,would be.

[Devon8822]

12th do indeed exist you cant deny that... they just don't exist in western notation and are not used.

 

Just what exactly do you do when you have something like a 12th note past the bar...? I go by this time by changing the tempo and cheating. Is western musical notation really that flawed?

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

Triplets are not irrational btw. A time sig of 12/π,however,would be.

 

There's my next composition planned!

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

12th do indeed exist you cant deny that... they just don't exist in western notation and are not used.

 

Sorry, but you can, because they don't.

 

This is just the rules of the "language" of western notaion, which is what we're talking about. If you want to create your own notation system, then that's cool.

 

Can you give an example of a notation system that has note divisions including 12th notes? I'm genuinely interested.

 

Just what exactly do you do when you have something like a 12th note past the bar...? I go by this time by changing the tempo and cheating. Is western musical notation really that flawed?

 

I think your problem was starting it off in 4/4. Some maths will be involved, but you can score pretty much any rhythm you can think of with western notation.

 

Check these out (but bear in mind that, within Logic, you would have to change the time signature on some of these, because Logic only allows whole integers of beats per bar): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_musical_works_in_unusual_time_signatures#.E2.85.94.2F2_and_.E2.85.94.2F4

[Beer Moth]

12th do indeed exist you cant deny that... they just don't exist in western notation and are not used.

 

Just what exactly do you do when you have something like a 12th note past the bar...? I go by this time by changing the tempo and cheating. Is western musical notation really that flawed?

 

A '12th' is a grid division...a representation.

You're making the denominator x.5 which means you've chosen badly.

Like having a fraction expressed as 1/3.5 instead of 2/7.

 

If you have a '12th' past the bar you add the 3/8ths to the previous bar and use the highest denominator.

4/4+3/8=15/8.

 

There is no such denominator in music as 12,ergo they do not exist.

Pilot error.

A 12th of a bar in 4/4 is a triplet quaver.

A 12th of a bar in 12/8 is a quaver.

Choose the appropriate one for the situation.

[Beer Moth]

Having read one of your own replies...

Is this what you want?

 

4/4(or 12/8 ): ||:Boppity,Boppity,Boppity,Boppity:|| (Bar 1)

13/8 ||:Boppity,Boppity,Boppity,Boppity,Bop:|| (Bar 3)

or 13/8 ||:Boppity,Boppity,Boppity,Boppitity:|| (Bar2)