dnito Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Hello all- Let me start off my first post by thanking everyone for all of their posts on these forums. I have been reading a ton over the last few days and have learned so much. That being said, I'm still confused as to what I should do. Here's my current setup: - Mac Pro (early 2009)- 2 X 2.93 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xeon processor- OS 10.7.2- Four internal 7200 RPM SATA 1 TB hard drives (system, samples, audio, back up)- Numerous external Glyph FW 800 HD- 6 GB RAM (currently), but I plan on expanding.- Logic 9.1.5 (usually running in 64 bit)- MIO 2882 2d Expanded +dsp I use my Mac mainly for scoring TV/film and I am about to (finally) invest in a number of VSL instruments, but am worried about my Mac's performance. I imagine I'll be using about 16 VSL instruments per arrangement (though there may be more) as well as a number of other Software Instruments (EXS, Ivory, NI, Spectrasonics, Toontrack, etc), plugs (32 & 64 bit) and video. A number of experienced and informed VSL users have advised me to invest in SSD for VSL, especially as there are all kinds of benefits when using VIP2. However, after reading through some of the posts on this forum, I'm a bit hesitant to spend all of my money on such an unproven technology. What would people recommend I do to have my MacPro handle the load? - Upgrade my RAM (a no brainer I know), but to how much (32GB or something crazy like OWC's 96 GB kit)? - Invest in SSD?- Invest in VEP5 and a possible slave computer for VSL and all of my other Software Instruments and samples?- Something else I've never even heard of? Of course, money is always an issue and I have no desire to be waiting it. That being said, i can't afford to have a system that doesn't work and I hope I can improve my current setup in an affordable way. Thank you! ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 I would so appreciate any feedback! thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) SSD will speed up your load times of the VSL samples and does provide a performance benefit when using VSL but.... given your system specs.. which are pretty good already... I'd add another computer as a slave and use VE Pro to share the load... Doing this will, in my opinion, give you the best performance boost overall and allow you to achieve what you are wanting to achieve... and allow you to expand further (by adding another slave later) if you so wish... I'd probably also upgrade the memory to 16GB or 32GB if you can find a good deal... but more than that is really a bit over the top imho... As an aside... to give you a basic outline of what is possible... I'm currently working on a large (90+ tracks) 2 hour orchestral score for a movie and my setup is my iMac (see my sig for details) 2 x 2011 MMSs, Several FW800 Glyphs, VE Pro, VIP 2, The Vienna Special Edition Bundle as well as several other sample sets via Kontakt 5 such as L.A.S.S Orchestral Brass Classic and Symphobia 1& 2 and and I am having no issues at all with loads etc... Lots of CPU/HD headroom left if needed... Edited December 11, 2011 by n6smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thx so much Nigel! My one hesitation with adding a MMS slave is that it's significantly more expensive then just adding an SSD or Ram, no? And since my setup is already decent, I wonder if I'd be able to improve things by just upping the Ram or adding an SSD. Also, do you know of VE (free edition) enables you to run a slave? Really appreciate the feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thx so much Nigel! My one hesitation with adding a MMS slave is that it's significantly more expensive then just adding an SSD or Ram, no? Also, do you know of VE (free edition) enables you to run a slave? Really appreciate the feedback! True.. A MMS will set you back about $900+ online.. but you can also use any computer with VE Pro.. I also have a couple of PCs I picked up dirt cheap from a Garage sale and I also can use my older Mac Minis and iMac from 2008 if I wish... really, whatever I could find.. is usable.. though the 2011 MMS is a powerful little box.. given it has a Quad Core inside... (and 2 x 1TB 7200 HDs) and is cheap to upgrade the memory to 8 GB via Amazon. You also have to take into account that as you are only running the VE Pro server and any plugins on that slave.. there isn't the load/overhead of your DAW running to take into account so you get a lot more punch for your buck.. and so the older Macs/PCs can give you a fair amount of extra capabilities even given their limited 'power'... I don't know about the Free Edition of Vienna Ensemble. I have always used the Pro version myself. You can read the Free Edition manual in two different ways in as much as it says it can work as a stand alone on a slave using the special server version on the Master but then again it also says in the same manual that it doesn't work over a network!?! So.. that's probably a question for Vienna themselves! Maybe a hunt through their forum will reveal the correct answer..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Thank you so much for the info, Nigel. It is very helpful. (And the power of your setup is very impressive) Where would you recommend I get RAM? In the past I've bought from OWC, but I wonder if there is a better (and cheaper) place these days. What type of hard drive do you have installed in your MMS? Is it SSD? And how about in your iMac? I think I'm leaning towards maxing out my RAM to 32GB (which will run me $259.99 at OWC) and then seeing how the system performs before I get a MMS. (Or am I kidding myself that my machine will handle the load?javascript:emoticon(':D') Again, I just want to be spending my money wisely these days. I'd consider picking up an older MMS (especially a refurbished one), but in the end a $500 price difference just doesn't seem worth it. : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I got my Corsair Ram (I thought the last batch i bought was Crucial but I was wrong it was Corsair..) from Amazon.... This is/was the link I used for my iMac and MMS memory upgrades.. but dig around for other memory chipsets for other Macs... http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-1333mhz-PC3-10666-204-pin-CMSO8GX3M2A1333C9/dp/B002YUF8ZG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323657606&sr=8-1 I have the standard pair of 7200RPM SATA 1TB drives installed in my MMSs.. My iMac has the BTO 7200rpm 2TB SATA Hard Drive internally.. If you can get 32GB of Ram for $260 then it might well be worth going down that route first and maybe grabbing a MMS laster along with VE Pro when you have more money on hand... You will certainly get a performance boost in terms of being able to load more samples into memory at the same time.. but there is the 'law of diminishing returns' to take in to account.. and the improvement won't be as dramatic as going from.. say.. 4-8GB.. Got to be worth a shot though!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 thanks for the info, Nigel. I would have thought going from 6GB to 32 GB RAM would show a HUGE performance upgrade. What exactly is "the law of diminishing returns'?" (sorry for all the questions) ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Mayfield Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 thanks for the info, Nigel. I would have thought going from 6GB to 32 GB RAM would show a HUGE performance upgrade. What exactly is "the law of diminishing returns'?" (sorry for all the questions) ds Basically, once you have enough RAM, it doesn't change anything when you go up to more than enough. For example, if all the samples you use in a project will fit into your current 6GB, then adding more RAM will not improve performance at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 I see. Just curious, why didn't you install an SSD in your MMS? I would have thought that with VIP SSD would have been another performance boost? Ds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 I didn't install a SSD because frankly, I didn't need it. I could have got a performance boost from using one but when i weighed the extra cost against the benefits I decided to stick to the two internal 7200 drives and use the saved money to buy VE Pro... That plus, to be honest, with the setup I have, HD speed is not an issue... My External FW800 Glyphs easily keep up with what work i do... and I am not totally convinced as yet, about the long term reliability of SSD's at this time... in terms of the fact that many people have reported a drop in performance over time due to the "free Block' issue even with TRIM... So, the biggest factor for me was cost per GB and the fact that my external FW800s & internal SATA drives work just fine for my needs... As far as RAM is concerned.. I agree with Matt's comments.. It all depends on what you need and what you are doing... and for me 16GB in my iMac Master computer and 8GB in each of my MMS Slave computers... seems about the right balance for my needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 12, 2011 Author Share Posted December 12, 2011 Thanks Nigel! If you can get 32GB of Ram for $260 then it might well be worth going down that route first and maybe grabbing a MMS laster along with VE Pro when you have more money on hand... You will certainly get a performance boost in terms of being able to load more samples into memory at the same time.. but there is the 'law of diminishing returns' to take in to account.. and the improvement won't be as dramatic as going from.. say.. 4-8GB.. Got to be worth a shot though!! Do you think I'd get a performance boost by running a MMS as my master and my MacPro as the slave? In which case, maybe it makes more sense to not invest my cash in RAM for the MacPro, but rather the MMS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stsao Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 SSD will speed up your load times of the VSL samples and does provide a performance benefit when using VSL but.... given your system specs.. which are pretty good already... I'd add another computer as a slave and use VE Pro to share the load... Doing this will, in my opinion, give you the best performance boost overall and allow you to achieve what you are wanting to achieve... and allow you to expand further (by adding another slave later) if you so wish... I'd probably also upgrade the memory to 16GB or 32GB if you can find a good deal... but more than that is really a bit over the top imho... As an aside... to give you a basic outline of what is possible... I'm currently working on a large (90+ tracks) 2 hour orchestral score for a movie and my setup is my iMac (see my sig for details) 2 x 2011 MMSs, Several FW800 Glyphs, VE Pro, VIP 2, The Vienna Special Edition Bundle as well as several other sample sets via Kontakt 5 such as L.A.S.S Orchestral Brass Classic and Symphobia 1& 2 and and I am having no issues at all with loads etc... Lots of CPU/HD headroom left if needed... hi, can you tell me do I slave my macbook pro to an iMac? if it works i don't have to upgrade to another iMac! thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 To use Slave computers and VE Pro, see this thread http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=77515&highlight=440 and this guide... (Unfinished but should give you a basic idea) http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=78956&highlight= for further info... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Thanks Nigel! Do you think I'd get a performance boost by running a MMS as my master and my MacPro as the slave? In which case, maybe it makes more sense to not invest my cash in RAM for the MacPro, but rather the MMS. Sorry.. I cannot give you a definitive answer as there are many different variables possibly in play but I'd say as a guess... Probably not.. I think your Mac Pro is still the more powerful computer in general terms even though the MMS provides you with 8 Cores running at 2Ghz each... but then again, depending on your Mac Pro and your type of workload...it might work better with the MMS as the Master and the Mac Pro as the slave.. Hard to say precisely which way around would work best.. I'd probably try the Mac Pro as the Master first but then try out the MMS as Master too and see which is effectively the better configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 Nigel- A couple of follow up questions if I may... I've ordered my RAM and am preparing to purchase a number of VSL libraries. - Do you have all of your VSL stuff on a dedicated FW 800 drive? - Do you split VSL over several drives? - I'll be using VSL, toontrack, Spectrasonics (etc) at the same time. Would you recommend that I keep the VSL content on its own drive and the other libraries on their own? - Have you noticed any performance difference between internal and external drives? - What is a good FW 800 drive to use as a back up? I use Glyphs as my primary, but don't want to spend the money on using one as a backup. (or is this foolish) Thanks! DS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thanks Nigel! I got the info in your other thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Glad I could help! Cheers.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Although this is off topic, I'm wondering if you could (or already have) posted what libraries you use besides Omnisphere. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n6smith Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 I use Kontakt Libraries such as: L.A. Scoring Strings, Vir2 Electri6ity, Symphobia 1 & 2, Orchestral Brass Classic, Acoustic Legends, KH's Libraries and most of Chris Hein's too.. to name but a few.. (I've spent way too much money on Kontakt libraries.... ) I also use EW's various PLAY libraries including Orchestral Platinum... and finally... VSL Special Edition Full. I also use a bunch of AU Instruments... mainly Rob Papen... Real Guitar/Strat/LPC, Korg's Analog & Digital collections..Camel Audio stuff... TruePianos, IK's Philharmonik and as you said, Omni etc... finishing off with NI's Komplete series.. Hey.. you did ask..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnito Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Thanks so much, Nigel. Interesting collection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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