Difficulty imaging HDD to external drive

[bcfromfl]

Sorry for such a basic question, and I hope I'm posting on the correct forum.

 

Given my aging G5, and the massive amount of programming in Logic I've done, I'd like to create an image of the main HDD. It's relatively stable, and, in the case of a failure, an image would allow for an easy fix to an otherwise catastrophic situation.

 

The main drive is 150GB, and I've installed a second 1TB drive that has some East West libraries on it. There is 200GB free. My LaCie external drive also has 200GB free, but I didn't allow for a large enough partition when I set this drive up.

 

Currently I'm backing up my Logic song files to a thumb drive, and try to do this regularly as I make changes.

 

I thought I could use Time Machine, but that's just for file backup. Then I found the backup feature in Disk Utility, and tried to run it. I got a "Disk busy" error, and can't seem to do it this way.

 

Is there a way to do this from one internal HDD to another, or am I going to have to spring for an external drive? Is this a partioning problem?

 

Thanks!

 

-Bruce

Edited January 13, 2012 by bcfromfl

[n6smith]

To prevent the HD busy.. you have to boot from an external DVD or Drive.. with an OS on it.. Lion or SL.. doesn't really matter.

 

Then when you try to clone from one disk to the other the system disk will be unmounted.. allowing it to proceed without issue.

 

Remember, you will need an internal or external HD with a large enough free partition to hold the entire image from your system drive...

 

Here's a tutorial explaining it all..

 

http://www.macinstruct.com/node/147

 

I use it several times a month when repairing/backing up/replacing client's System drives.. and it works great.

[bcfromfl]

Thanks Nigel!

 

OK, now I'm embarrassed! I have the OSX 10.4.2 install disc. How do I boot from the disc?

 

Thanks again!

 

-Bruce

[n6smith]

No worries..

 

Insert the OS disc and then restart your Mac..

 

As soon as you hear the chime.. hold down the C key and your Mac should boot from the OS CD

 

if that doesn't work.. the full list of Boot options can be found here..

 

http://face.centosprime.com/macosxw/startup-keys-boot-options/

 

Maybe the option key would work instead... It's been so long since i worked with Tiger/Leopard.. I cannot recall..

[bcfromfl]

Awesome! Thanks again, Nigel! I'll give it a go!

 

-Bruce

[bcfromfl]

I'm sorry to report I'm still having difficulty doing this. After Nigel's help, I tried booting from disc, only to discover that what I had is the install disc, and not a boot disc. After evaluating how much room I have available on my second HDD and external drive, I made the decision to order a second external drive, and give it a go when that arrived.

 

Well, the drive arrived today, and, to my dismay, I've discovered that I still can't avoid this startup disc. I've watched YouTube tutorials, and searched Apple pages, but still can't find a simple answer how to create this disc. Pressing "C" on my keyboard doesn't seem to give the option menu I'm supposed to see, but maybe I'm not doing this correctly.

 

I'd really appreciate some help in getting me going here. I'm a PC guy, and still don't "get" Macs...

 

Thanks!

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

The install disc IS the boot disk.

Insert the Tiger disc. Restart the mac. After you hear the startup chime hold down the C key until you see the spinning circle under the apple logo. And you should also hear the disc drive reading.

[Eriksimon]

Insert the Tiger disc. Restart the mac. After you hear the startup chime hold down the C key until you see the spinning circle under the apple logo. And you should also hear the disc drive reading.

 

...and after OK-ing the first selection (language? I think?) you can go to the Utilities Menu and run Disk Utility to create the image. The install disk is not only an install disk...

[bcfromfl]

OK, I did that, and then it gives me another screen to say that it's going to INSTALL the earlier version. I don't want to do that! I'll lose my updates, and potentially mess with my Logic files. Why does Apple make this such a laborious process? Is this my only option?

 

Thanks!

 

-Bruce

[John Reid]

I've always used external backup options, since I like the simplicity of that. I've never had luck using Apple's implementations, and I want more control over WHAT i actually back up.

 

My day job is as a graphic designer, and I have TBs of data that I back up every night to 2 separate drives using Prosoft DataBackup over eSATA. Takes maybe 10 minutes for @ 4 TBs... my Boot drive (all my apps), my work RAID (all the design stuff), my audio drive (Logic songs, software updates, etc.), and my Music drive (ripped CDs).

 

Honestly, storage is very cheap these days... you can get a 1 TB quad interface (FW 400/800, USB2, eSATA) external HD from OWC for $190:

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other%20World%20Computing/MEAQ7S1TB32M/

 

Or, if you have a bunch of raw drives lying around, you can also use an external raw drive "dock" to back up data:

 

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/NewerTech/Voyager/Hard_Drive_Dock

 

or this one from Weibtech (I use this one... more $$, but bullet-proof). This allows me to repurpose any HD I have lying around from previous retired computers as backups. Buy some storage cases and you can start an archive or store in a bank if you fell like it:

 

http://www.wiebetech.com/products/UltraDock.php

 

Again, my opinion and preference, but my data paranoia likes having EXTERNAL backups, and multiple redundancy.

[triplets]

OK, I did that, and then it gives me another screen to say that it's going to INSTALL the earlier version. I don't want to do that! I'll lose my updates, and potentially mess with my Logic files. Why does Apple make this such a laborious process? Is this my only option?

 

Thanks!

 

-Bruce

 

You don't have to install anything. Like Erik said you after the language selection should have a top menu bar with a Utilities submenu, select Disk Utility and then create your image.

You have never done this, so relax.

[bcfromfl]

OK...deep breath...*sigh*... I feel better now! I'm not at my Mac right now, but I'll try again later.

 

Thanks, and thanks John for your suggestions. I got a 160GB Mercury Elite-AL Pro for this task.

 

-Bruce

[bcfromfl]

OK, I got things going (or at least I thought), and an hour later I get this: "Unable to create [file.dmg] error - 39." I looked up error 39 and it's an "end-of-file" error.

 

Should I suspect a corrupted driver? Do the OS updates also include drivers? I'm suspicious of websites that offer driver updates, and know that even well-intentioned driver updates can cause mass failure. (Been there, done that.)

 

What should I do? Thanks!

 

-Bruce

Edited January 13, 2012 by bcfromfl

[triplets]

Where are you trying to create the image? On an external HD? Is it formatted in Mac OSX Extended? If it is formatted in FAT32 (for Windows and Mac) you might have to reformat the drive to HFS+ (Mac OSX Extended).

[bcfromfl]

The external drive comes from the factory OSX Extended, using GUID. It says in the instruction booklet that for PowerMacs, as long as you're using the drive for external storage and not as a start-up drive, this is OK. It also says for OS 10.3.9 and earlier, you need APM. (I'm at 10.5.8.)

 

Is this a potential problem? Should I re-format to APM?

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

What is it exactly what you want to rescue from that drive?

Eventually you have to go Intel at some point. Can't you just drag the important things over to a backup drive?

[bcfromfl]

I want to create an image of my drive, so in the unfortunate case of a meltdown, I can easily restore a new drive and be off and running, without re-creating all my lengthy software installations, etc. I have backups on flash drives of Logic files already, but this is another layer of protection I'd like to have.

 

I could use Time Machine, but that would be redundant to what I'm already doing. And an Intel machine is absolutely out of the question.

 

It's supposed to be "easy", no?

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

What to do mean with Time machine is redundant?

I rescued an iMac where the main HD went bad and used a Time Machine backup to get the computer exactly where it was before the meltdown.

It couldn't be any easier, and I instructed the person over the phone in another continent all the necessary steps.

[bcfromfl]

What I mean by redundant is that I'm already backing up files. Yeah, having yet another drive for backed-up files has some benefit, but that's not what this external drive is for. I want an image of the HDD, so in the case of a meltdown, I don't have to take hours and hours to reinstall all the software, and risk glitches such that my pre-meltdown files won't work right.

 

I e-mailed MacSales Tech Support, but haven't heard back yet.

 

This is so silly. Imaging Windows discs is a breeze compared with this...

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

I want an image of the HDD, so in the case of a meltdown, I don't have to take hours and hours to reinstall all the software, and risk glitches such that my pre-meltdown files won't work right.

 

I e-mailed MacSales Tech Support, but haven't heard back yet.

 

This is so silly. Imaging Windows discs is a breeze compared with this...

 

-Bruce

 

Did you read my post?

I said I rescued an iMac with a bad HD with Time Machine.

We installed the new HD, recalled the Time Machine backup, and computer was up and running in 30 minutes approx. just like it was before the meltdown, nothing to install, everything working like nothing happened.

[bcfromfl]

Yes, I saw your post. But in my investigation of Time Machine, I thought it only did user-selected files and not imaging. Now I'm getting more frustrated, because already I'm doubting what I thought I understood about this. I'm already backing up files on a flash drive. I think there is benefit to imaging my HDD on a separate drive -- the entire thing. I don't understand enough about Macs, re-registering software (if necessary), or remember enough about what I did when I installed everything to begin with a couple years ago. I only bought my Mac (used from EBay) to run Logic, and after about 2-1/2 years, I'm still not familiar with it, and just don't "get" Finder and how to drill into file structure. I'm just not that type of computer person, and don't want to trust myself with these details. It's relatively stable right now, and I want to preserve that integrity by cloning it, so that if/when the HDD fails, I can pop a new one in and be done with it relatively painlessly.

 

If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you got Time Machine to image the disc. How do you do this, without disengaging the HDD from the OS and running from the CD? When you say "nothing to install", that just doesn't seem possible if it's not an image. Logic alone took me...I think...three hours to install.

 

I heard back from Tech Support at MacSales, and they suggest wiping the new Mercury drive clean and starting again. I might be able to do this tomorrow (Monday).

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

Time Machine makes a copy of the HD, there's no special setting I selected, I just let it do its thing. I think you're over-thinking the process.

Just enjoy the Mac. Don't try to understand it from a Windows standpoint, because it's pointless.

[Rev. Juda Sleaze]

I think you're over-thinking the process.

Just enjoy the Mac. Don't try to understand it from a Windows standpoint, because it's pointless.

 

Absolutely.

 

The first time Time Machine will run, it will take a good while to copy the whole HD, but after that, it keeps track of any files that have changed and backs-up each hour (if you want, you can just run it whenever you wish, but hourly back-ups can be very useful), allowing you to choose which point in time you wish to restore from, or just pick individual folders/files to restore.

 

Macs keep their inner workings from the user, and are esoteric beasts. I understand that can be scary after using PCs, but Macs are designed to leave the user free to just use their software, not spend half their time configuring and trouble-shooting their setup.

[bcfromfl]

Thank you all for your help in getting me set up, and I appreciate your patience. My experiences especially this week have really frustrated me, and shaken my confidence in operating this machine "safely". I'm also annoyed that I may have purchased a product that I'll have to now return.

 

Today, I started by erasing the new Mercury drive. I then tried to run Time Machine. However, I cannot de-select my other internal HDD, which is a 1TB drive. So, Time Machine tries to save both HDDs -- the 150GB drive, plus the 1TB drive. It only gives me the option to de-select my other external drive. Obviously it fails in trying to run.

 

I went back to try to image the drive via the Utilities program. I got the same error 39, an "end-of-file" error. The Mercury drive is 150GB just like the HDD I'm trying to image.

 

I'm really at a loss now to try to figure out how to continue, other than trying to call MacSales Tech Support.

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

Can you verify/repair the drive you're trying to rescue in Disk Utility?

[bcfromfl]

Yes. As a matter of fact, I verified/repaired first to make sure everything's "clean and tidy".

[bcfromfl]

I spoke today with am extremely helpful rep at Other World Computing/MacSales Tech Support. He didn't have an answer why my second HDD was included by Time Machine in the backup, but did say that the imaging part of the Utility program leaves some things to be desired.

 

He recommended using the Bombich "Carbon Copy Cloner" (which was included on a disc with other freeware/donationware programs). The software worked perfectly, with no issues.

 

I'm a happy camper now, and very relieved to have this solved! Thank you to all with your suggestions!

 

-Bruce

[triplets]

Great news!

Thanks for sharing!