jonahhh Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Somehow Logic seems setup to lower the volume of it's internal instruments if it receives CC 43 Expression (sub-Volume). Is there anything to do except not use it and filter it out in case it does get accidentally used? I'm trying to map various controls and I can use all the CCs I can get! Although it not crucial I'm not sure how to bring it back up to the correct volume either after MIDI CC 43 has been engaged other than sending cc11. MIDI CC 43 goes from very quiet to very, very quiet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 CC#43 is the LSB (fine values) for the companion (and more familiar) CC#11, "expression controller". And in theory, sending an instrument CC#43 should only adjust the volume by a miniscule amount. Really, the only way to know if you can use any particular CC# is to experiment with each individual plugin. That said, of the 128 MIDI CC#'s, 120 are available (avoid using 121 - 127), with only several of the bulk of them having dedicated functions -- namely -- 7, 10, 11 (sometimes), and 64. But every synth/sampler/plugin is going to have different MIDI implementation so again, experimenting is the way to go to guide yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 ...several of the bulk of them having dedicated functions -- namely -- 7, 10, 11 (sometimes), and 64. How about 1? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 How about 1? 8) OK, let's take it one smiley at a time, in reverse order... CC#1 is cool. 8) 1 is the loneliest number. And now for the shocker... Believe it or not, CC#1 does not have a dedicated function according to the MIDI Spec. CC#1 has the official designation of "modulation wheel or lever" in the spec, but it doesn't imply what exactly is to be modulated. On the other hand the official designations for CC#7 and CC#64 denote a specific function, i.e., MIDI volume and Sustain Pedal (respectively). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shivermetimbers Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 .... and #2? What about #2? "...Two can be as bad as one It's the loneliest number since the number one." I'm trying to map various controls and I can use all the CCs I can get! Why not reuse them by using Logic's learn function? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 CC123. That the "kind" of modulation is not specified (but it is almost always LFO driven vibrato or tremolo) is really an academic or semantic or any other -ic point only. In practice, CC1 is "taken". And and are not smileys, they don't smile. So there. Although... is smiling... OK, I'll take it back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahhh Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 CC#43 is the LSB (fine values) for the companion (and more familiar) CC#11, "expression controller". And in theory, sending an instrument CC#43 should only adjust the volume by a miniscule amount. Did you happen to try it with logic's instruments? I was playing in the environment and Logic's response is bizarre, to me at least. If you send CC 43 on one fader it mutes the instrument with no way to fix it. If you make another fader with CC 11 when you adjust CC 43 the volume will no go back to whatever CC 11 is set at. Where it gets strange is that if you delete the CC11 fader Logic still remembers the value, so CC 43 only mutes the volume while you are dragging it. I also find it strange I couldn't find any place in the interface of the instrument to adjust to bring the volume back to normal. I'm mostly working on mapping Sculpture, which still seems unmatched as far as software physical modeling synths. Lot of controls! Maybe I'll try out CCs on multiple MIDI channels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Jonah, Interesting. I'll have a peek at this later today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I was playing in the environment and Logic's response is bizarre, to me at least. If you send CC 43 on one fader it mutes the instrument with no way to fix it. It all depends on which instrument you're talking about. I just tried this out with EXS-24, ES-2, and Sculpture. EXS-24 does not respond to CC#43, but both ES-2 and Sculpture do. If you send Sculpture a CC#11 value of zero (which essentially turns Sculpture's internal, CC#11-driven volume control off), and then you send it CC#43 values ranging from 0 - 127, you will hear the volume increase. Here, CC#43's values are raising the volume in-between the CC#11 values of 0 (off) and 1. The only way to get Sculpture to play at full volume again would be to send it a CC#11 value of 127. Same behavior with ES-2. So... between any two values of CC#11 (the MSB) there are (in theory) 128 additional fine steps of volume adjustment that can be made via CC#43. But how many of these "micro steps" there are in any device or plugin depends on its particular design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 CC123. That the "kind" of modulation is not specified (but it is almost always LFO driven vibrato or tremolo) is really an academic or semantic or any other -ic point only. In practice, CC1 is "taken". And and are not smileys, they don't smile. So there. Although... is smiling... OK, I'll take it back So much to reply to, so little time... That the "kind" of modulation is not specified (but it is almost always LFO driven vibrato or tremolo) is really an academic or semantic or any other -ic point only. In practice, CC1 is "taken". Erm... no, it's not a semantic or academic point at all. (Being pedantic about smilies is another thing altogether). I said it all in my post above. And again below. Not much to debate, argue, misconstrue, beg to differ with, characterize as "academic" or find some new and enlightened way to look at. (Sowwy). Believe it or not, CC#1 does not have a dedicated function according to the MIDI Spec. CC#7 & #64, and those from #120 - 127 have dedicated functions. I've never known a MIDi device not to respond to CC#7 or #64 with anything other than the expected behavior. CC's #120 - 127 may or may not be implemented in a device according to the MIDI spec, but still they're best avoided (otherwise, unpredictable behavior can result). Other than those, what kind of change a CC actually causes to a sound is entirely up for grabs. Even so-called "switch controllers" like CC#64 don't have to be used as an actual switch control (which accounts for why half-damper pedals output CC#64 with variable values). As you pointed out, there is indeed the "traditional" use for various CC's, such as CC#1 (vibrato), and for CC#11, "expression". But how those CC's are actually implemented in the instrument -- or how they affect the sound -- is entirely dependent on the wishes of the instrument designer and/or the sound programmer. In many cases, CC#11 will do absolutely nothing to the sound. Other times, it will act solely as a secondary volume control -- just like (though separate from) CC#7. And still other times, CC#11 is implemented to perform multiple simultaneous tasks, such as adjusting both volume and timbre (filter, EQ, etc.) simultaneously. There ya go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.