Expression pedal issues

[cranston]

Hello All,

 

For some reason my expression pedal (midi CC11) is behaving as a volume pedal of sorts. I don't want it to be assigned to the volume. I can easily assign the pedal to any software instrument 'knobs' with the learn mode. However, I can't seem to figure out how to remove the volume control, ie: I can get it to work the rotary speaker (or any other feature) on the EVB3 but the volume seems to be the one parameter I can't disconnect. This is not happening within the software instrument or the level on the mixing board. It only shows up on the transport bar. Perhaps the issue is within the Axiom Pro? I can't see anywhere that any level is being controlled by the expression pedal except inside the transport bar, nothing changes on the software instrument, nothing changes on the mixer.

 

Best,

Cranston

[David Nahmani]

It only shows up on the transport bar.

How so? What do you see in the transport bar? Do you see the volume slider move?

 

After learning an assignment for it in learn mode, when tweaking your expression pedal, is there any activity in the transport bar's MIDI input display? What do you see exactly?

[hungrydave]

If i remember rightly, when using expression with a basic MIDI module, it is in effect just another volume control, so it seems to me that you're getting the effects of the MIDI expression as well as the learned assignment.

 

On a hammond organ clone, CC11 is highly likely to be default controlling the volume pedal. If this is the case then having it all the way down will not entirely cut out the volume (just like a hammond pedal), but will reduce it. I haven't used the EVB3 extensively as i use my nord for hammond, but there's probably a visual representation (or slider) of the volume pedal on the AU. If this is indeed the problem, you should see it moving when you move the pedal

 

I would suggest filtering out the CC11 in the environment. But then i'm not sure at what stage of the MIDI signal, learned assignments draw their midi signal from. If they take it post your transformer removing the CC11, then there will be no CC11, to get a learned assignment from. Perhaps David can step in here.

 

I tend to not use learned assignments because it seems to operate behind the scenes when i'd like to see what's happening and be able to control it in the environment.

If it was me, i'd remove the learned assignment and simply make a transformer to change CC11, to whatever fader parameter you specifically want to control

[cranston]

@David - Thanks for the quick reply. The volume slider does not move. In transport bar, the only variables which are changing are within the MIDI input display. It shows a little symbol like an upside down thumbtack, and " 1 11 (0-127)" The 0-127 depends on the range of the movement of the expression pedal. If I adjust the minimum volume on the side of the pedal, the midi input is limited accordingly, ie full volume on the knob restricts the MIDI input to 109-127. Pretty sure the "1" indicates the midi channel, "11" indicates the MIDI CC11.

 

The best illustration of this is if I choose the EVB3, there is a display for the expression pedal. I thought it might help to adjust the volume knob on the pedal (Boss FV500), however this restricts ALL midi input, not just the volume. When I learn an assignment, none of the behavior changes other than the pedal will tweak the assigned parameter in addition to the volume. I would like to remove the volume changes.

 

Let's assign the Chorus on the EVB3 to the expression pedal, this brings us to a secondary issue, the assignment only recognizes 0 or 127 exclusively. Full Chorus or no Chorus. I am less concerned with this (probably an easy fix) than I am with figuring out how to get the pedal to stop changing the volume. I have the M-Audio Axiom Pro 61. I can use the on board encoders and sliders to manipulate chorus, rate; mod wheel for rotary speaker, etc. I don't know, perhaps the M-Audio EX-P expression pedal will resolve the issue? I would figure I could resolve the issue from within Logic no matter what though.

 

Thanks again for the quick attention!

 

@HungryDave - Thank you too for your quick attention. No matter the instrument, EVB3 or Sculpture, the default is volume control, this is global which would lead me to believe it would be easier to fix. You are correct, if I filter out the CC11, the pedal does nothing. The learned assignments are reflected in the AU displays but I do understand your hesitance and desire for more control. As previously stated I can use the sliders, knobs, and mod wheel on the Axiom but I have two feet and I want my fingers free for playing. I appreciate the thought.

 

Best,

Cranston

[hungrydave]

 

@HungryDave - Thank you too for your quick attention. No matter the instrument, EVB3 or Sculpture, the default is volume control, this is global which would lead me to believe it would be easier to fix. You are correct, if I filter out the CC11, the pedal does nothing. The learned assignments are reflected in the AU displays but I do understand your hesitance and desire for more control. As previously stated I can use the sliders, knobs, and mod wheel on the Axiom but I have two feet and I want my fingers free for playing. I appreciate the thought.

 

Best,

Cranston

 

Hello again cranston. So it seems to me that this learn function learns from the MIDI, but doesn't remove it's original purpose in this case expression (which is often just another way of saying volume). So the answer is to actually transform the CC11 to the correct fader control. That way there will no longer be any CC11 to effect the volume/expression

 

The 'upside down thumbtack' means controller data, the following three bytes of data are: channel / CCnumber / amount of variable.

 

You need to make a transformer that changes: Controller data / Any (channel) / CC#11 / Any (variable). Into fader data. To find the fader data you need to use, simply plug a monitor into the channel of the instrument and move the fader you want to control. The monitor will display 4 bytes, this time starting with an 'F' which signifies fader data.

 

If you're unsure about making transformers post back

[cranston]

Hello HungryDave,

 

I am unfamiliar with transformers, if you can give explicit directions I would be most appreciative. Otherwise, please point me in the direction of a competent instruction manual.

 

Best,

Cranston

 

update - I think I found it, Logic Pro 9 Advanced Music Production (Dvorkin and Brock) pp 459-464? If you don't have the text, it details the use and creation of transformer objects. If you have any more help in the matter, one thousand thank yous.

 

Best,

Cranston

[hungrydave]

Eric.

Pick a parameter you want to assign the footpedal to.

Open the environment window and select the layer (top left) called mixer.

Find the channel on which the instrument we want to control sits.

Select: new / monitor. This will create a little monitoring device.

The channel strip has a little nipple on the top right, click on that and pull the cable into the monitor

 

Now we can see any of the info that comes out of this channel. Next:

 

Still in the environment window, double click the channel strip instrument name (sits just under the aux sends) so it's interface pops up.

Locate the parameter you want to control and move it. Make sure you can see the monitor we made while you do this. There should be data appearing on the monitor.

The data will appear in four bytes. The first Byte will say F for fader. The next three bytes will be numbers. Take a note of the first three bytes eg - F | 2 | 25

 

Everything we've done so far is just a way of finding out what MIDI info your chosen parameter sends and responds to. We now have that information and the next step is to transform CC11 into that fader data we just found.

 

Now in the environment window, select the layer clicks and ports. Select: New / transformer

Set the transformer up as follows

In the two red circles, you need to put the numbers in that we noted down earlier that correspond to the info your selected parameter recieves.

Now simply place the transformer into the signal flow between the SUM output of the big grey box and the little box that says 'sequencer input'. This is easily done by clicking and dragging the cables to move them.

 

Presto it should work. Post back with any troubles

[cranston]

Thank you so much for this! As soon as I have some time to try it outI will get back to you with results/question. THANKS!!!