tristancalvaire Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 other ambiguously used english terms or latin words with no meaning to me; Hello! I'm completely lost in music theory at this point, as I was out ill for quite a few lessons and missed the instruction on counterpoint, cantus-firmus, species, etc. My music theory book (the musician's guide to theory and analysis) is only confusing me more-so. I guess the pretentious notion held by jazz musicians / rockers / pop composers / electronic artists / Stravinsky of "just do what sounds good" is clouding my mind from understanding how to properly make music by rules and formulas. Anyways, would you mind linking any resources you know of for understanding counterpoint, the various species and cantus firmus? Also, any of your personal information on what these concepts are would be much appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtapir Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I would actually say that jazz musicians have an incredible amount of theory behind their playing, because there are a lot of different modes (variations on a scale) that fit with all the different chord inversions (different shapes of the same chord) they use. An example (not very technical one) of counterpoint is when you get a single bass line playing different notes, while the higher melody line plays totally different notes, but together they sound really good. Bach composed some absolutely amazing stuff with counterpoint. My dad is a classical guitarist and plays a few Bach pieces, I'm trying to remember one particular one. Wikipedia is usually a good place to start from though. "In music, counterpoint is the relationship between voices that are harmonically interdependent (polyphony), but independent in rhythm and contour." So different rhythms but interlinking melodies. I'll get back to you on the Bach piece though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtapir Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 THe Bach piece is the Lute Suite no.1 in E - ('Bouree' is the section i was thinking of but the whole thing is definitely worth a listen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravity Jim Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Counterpoint is one or more melodic lines that harmonize with the primary melody, which is referred to as the cantus firmus, without following its rhythm. (Think of that Latin as meaning "solid song" and you'll see that the cantus firmus is the foundational melody). The term "species" just refers to the classification of five different types of counterpoint devised by some ancient music teacher or another... Species 1 is one note against the cantus firmus, species 2 is two voices against the cantus firmus, etc. Apparently five is as high as you are allowed to go without making the teacher scowl at you. So, counterpoint is like Nigel Tufnel's "intersecting lines" in his "Mach piece," the cantus firmus is the primary melody, and species is a long-haired term for classifying how many voices are introduced. And who is being pretentious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristancalvaire Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 I would actually say that jazz musicians have an incredible amount of theory behind their playing, because there are a lot of different modes (variations on a scale) that fit with all the different chord inversions (different shapes of the same chord) they use. You can play, understand and use pentatonic scales and seventh chords without following the rules of it >_> Anywhoo, thanks both for the advice! Still working on the theory homework >.< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravity Jim Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If you think jazzers are playing pentatonic scales and sevenths on some kind of autopilot... well, then you do have a lot of theory to learn. It's a TEENSY bit more complicated than that. You're thinking of The Blues. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 would you mind linking any resources you know of for understanding counterpoint, the various species and cantus firmus? You could start with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtapir Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Julian Bream plays some Bach., which demonstrates counterpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nublu Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 "just do what sounds good" is clouding my mind from understanding how to properly make music by rules and formulas. I have never seen them as rules and formulas. I have always approached theory as a means of establishing common ground with other musicians. Communication, focus, play, .... helps get folks on the same page. Free to explore what "sounds good" ..... together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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