Seeking Piano Comp examples/advice

[tristancalvaire]

Hello!

 

While my mother is a classically trained pianist... I've tried quite a few times with differing instructors to take up the instrument myself, but could never keep with it. There's something about practicing a simplified version of Für Elise for hours on end– and still not executing it well– that's really demoralizing.

 

However, I've always loved the art and creativity of professional pianists, and while I don't aspire to become one, I'd sure love to grasp the style of their improvisation and composition.

 

I'd love to study what makes the musical styling tick, and merge it with my own synthesis capabilities to create some unique, dynamic, interesting music. Unfortunately, the only example I have to give is a very not-Baroque piece– http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30_V3G8doME . (P.S.– with this example in particular, I'm not so concerned about how the melody line was created, so much as how the pianist rendered it with all the backing voicing, arpeggios and what not.)

 

Would you happen to know of any similar pieces I could study– perhaps sheet music, or audio– as well as some resources for learning how this style is composed?

 

Thanks!

[rhys]

There's something about practicing a simplified version of Für Elise for hours on end– and still not executing it well– that's really demoralizing.

 

 

Thats pretty funny man! sorry can't help with suggestions but I get this problem with piano too, it just doesn't light up that part of my brain and could never figure out why I love music so much, can play guitar, love the sound of a piano but find learning it (although I understand very basic music theory) very mind numbing. Maybe the type of guy that tinkers with a mouse isn't enthused by tinkering with the ivorys or something I dunno.

 

Why don't you just get your mother in as a session musician whenever you need some piano?

[camillo jr]

One thing you might consider is Melodyne.... a staightforward piano piece like that (by which I mean, no other stuff going on) would export fairly well as a midi file which you could study in the piano roll. Of course, Melodyne won't give you the sustain pedaling but I don't think you'd really need that part.

 

I might also add that I'm a "keyboard player" who is slowly but surely teaching himself piano. It's not the traditional route, for sure but I'm getting closer to my goal. The way I look at it is a lot guitarists generally learn in their own way and figure out stuff that works for them. Piano can be the same way. That being said, I wish my parents had done something like make me take classical lessons back when I was a kid!

[lookatthisguy]

One thing you might consider is Melodyne.... a staightforward piano piece like that (by which I mean, no other stuff going on) would export fairly well as a midi file which you could study in the piano roll. Of course, Melodyne won't give you the sustain pedaling but I don't think you'd really need that part.

 

I might also add that I'm a "keyboard player" who is slowly but surely teaching himself piano. It's not the traditional route, for sure but I'm getting closer to my goal. The way I look at it is a lot guitarists generally learn in their own way and figure out stuff that works for them. Piano can be the same way. That being said, I wish my parents had done something like make me take classical lessons back when I was a kid!

 

I'm self-taught. It's funny, really… one moment I'll think it quite remarkable how I went from being taught one-finger melodies from my grandfather about two decades ago to forcing myself to use all my fingers, read both clefs (at once, even!), et cetera, et cetera, and the next I'll curse myself for not being better than I am, wasting lots of money on applications for colleges I can't get into for that reason, and wishing I'd had proper lessons as a child, too.

 

What can I say? Practice, practice, practice… (and I guess do your homework and show up to class. Wouldn't be feeling as behind the curve as I do now if I'd done at least either of those back then.)

[shivermetimbers]

Memorize this pattern:

 

1 7 3 45 678 3 45 67 2 5 4 aa 45 6y 34 rtg 6 yyy

 

Now without looking repeat it back.

 

Some day you may be able to recite it back exactly as it is seen, but never exactly as I typed it. You will never be able to replicate the emotion I put into typing that.

 

Playing the piano is similar, you have to develop the muscles in your hands/fingers so that they too can memorize patterns. Once you can play the piece as written, you can then add in your emotions.

 

Some professional concert pianists will memorize a piece by playing at a really s-l-o-w tempo so that the fingers are trained to be in a certain position at a certain time. Kind of like having Logic play a midi piano piece at 10 BPM. Gradually over time the practice is sped up and the fingers move to the new positions quicker. Eventually, you will play the piece without thinking because your fingers have developed the necessary muscle memory to play.

[tristancalvaire]

One thing you might consider is Melodyne.... a staightforward piano piece like that (by which I mean, no other stuff going on) would export fairly well as a midi file which you could study in the piano roll. Of course, Melodyne won't give you the sustain pedaling but I don't think you'd really need that part.

 

While I possess Melodyne, I unfortunately have a monophonic copy x_x

 

So, from what I'm gathering- learn to play the pieces of others, and you'll eventually figure out how to compose with your own emotion in it?

 

I mean, I think I've gotten the Philip Glass method down. 1-3-1-3-1-3 with gradual crescendos and whatnot, or a sudden velocity change, it's quite powerful.

[Nublu]

Hello!

 

While my mother is a classically trained pianist...

 

However, I've always loved the art and creativity of professional pianists, and while I don't aspire to become one, I'd sure love to grasp the style of their improvisation and composition.....

 

I'd love to study what makes the musical styling tick, and merge it with my own synthesis capabilities to create some unique, dynamic, interesting music....

 

Would you happen to know of any similar pieces I could study– perhaps sheet music, or audio– as well as some resources for learning how this style is composed?

 

Thanks!

Hi Tristan.

Here are some links to some materials that may prove useful to you. You can load the Midi files in Logic and .... play around... Which might help you in your quest to recognize elements of style and their development.

http://www.kunstderfuge.com/

http://www.classicalarchives.com/midi.html

http://imslp.org/wiki/

http://archive.org/index.php

http://www.music.indiana.edu/department/composition/isfee/

Google

 

+1 on talking to your Mom.

 

[Sonicboy]

Hi Tristan,

 

I'm not entirely sure how much piano you can play; obviously you need to know the basics to write anything of value. But you don't need to be a concert pianist, or even necessarily be able to play what you write. After all, a composer is often required to write for an instrument she cannot play. For instance, many of the great composers could not play the violin, but wrote amazing concertos for it. In such cases, they typically consulted a professional violinist for advice during the composition process. Likewise, you could consult your mother or a piano student, and ask them to play what you wrote and to offer feedback.

 

My other advice would be to buy scores (and recordings of those scores) and just listen and read along. For example, the Chopin Etudes will show you just about every melodic/accompaniment/technical trick that can be done on a piano. You don't have to play them! They are for very advanced pianists. Just read along and study them visually and aurally. I would also get a score of the Beethoven Sonatas, especially vol 1 (they usually come in 2 vols). The "Kill the Noise" track you linked doesn't do anything that can't be found in Beethoven's sonatas.

 

Apart from that, buy the scores of any non-classical piece you like, and study it. These are often hard to find, but things like "Hey Jude" are easy to track down.

 

If you want to learn piano yourself, I would advise getting a new teacher and starting with something easier that Fur Elise. If you are learning a piece and are simply struggling for too long, then the piece is too hard for you at the moment. Fur Elise is considered to be of "medium" difficulty, not for beginners.