Increasing Logic Volume output whilst maintaing gain staging

[FoolsGold]

Ok Weird question

 

So i keep acciently running channels in the red, for no other reason that i cant hear whats happening so i have to turn the channels or master up.

My macbook pro is on full volume running into my apoee Duet which is on Full (0 db in Maestro Software), and my monitors are running on 0db, yet its sorta just a little bit too loud at the point.

 

I want to be able to crank something so i can really keep my channel volumes/master far far away from the red.

 

The only option i can see if turn monitors up to +6 but i feel like im missing something, is there a way to increase logic volume output without touching master fader?

[steveo12ax7]

Something sounds off with your monitoring setup. On material that hasn't already been limited like a typical Logic mix I can only turn my Duet up to about -22 before it starts getting painfully loud. Commercial stuff out of iTunes gets really loud at about -32. Are your monitors active or passive? If they have their own gain control built-in, is that set at 0db?

 

Check out the forum guidelines about posting your system specs in your signature, that will help with everyone's replies.

[FoolsGold]

Sorry my i thourght i put my information in my signature. Should be there now

 

Ok so have a kick drum playing in Logic at -10 db. My mac volume is on full, my duet is on maximum (0db) . And my KRK rockit 6 monitors are at +3 with the sub adjusted to match. Id say its 6-7/10 .... 1 being way too quiet, 10 being way too loud. I want the increase this output, so i can keep my channels volume way down, around -10 but i want a louder listening environment....

[FoolsGold]

BUMP?

[Matt Mayfield]

Ok Weird question

 

So i keep acciently running channels in the red, for no other reason that i cant hear whats happening so i have to turn the channels or master up.

My macbook pro is on full volume running into my apoee Duet which is on Full (0 db in Maestro Software), and my monitors are running on 0db, yet its sorta just a little bit too loud at the point.

 

I want to be able to crank something so i can really keep my channel volumes/master far far away from the red.

 

The only option i can see if turn monitors up to +6 but i feel like im missing something, is there a way to increase logic volume output without touching master fader?

 

Logic has (practically) unlimited headroom on all its buses and individual channels. While it's best practice not to let individual channels go over 0dBFS, there are extremely few situations where it actually causes clipping. All you need to do is adjust your Output fader so that it never goes over 0, as that *will* clip. (Obviously that applies to unclipped signals *already within* Logic; you still want to keep levels low on recording so you don't clip at the input Analog-to-Digital converter. But it's fine to boost them back up in the digital domain.)

 

Are you basing your level philosophy off of that article that was published a few years ago about how to make DAWs sound better by keeping all your channels really low? Because that does not really apply to DAWs with floating point mix engines like Logic.

[alex_l]

Are you basing your level philosophy off of that article that was published a few years ago about how to make DAWs sound better by keeping all your channels really low? Because that does not really apply to DAWs with floating point mix engines like Logic.

 

I may be wrong but I don't think you are quite correct; many plugins are built with a reasonably traditional gain structure in mind and although the input and output can be nowhere near 'in the red' you can still clip them internally (plugins like the SPL Twintube have a clip indicator built in).

 

One thing that may help with the OP's problem might be to keep everything quite low on the channels and then to use a makeup gain plug to boost the volume on the master, then just remove it when necessary

[Holger Lagerfeldt]

The only option i can see if turn monitors up to +6 but i feel like im missing something, is there a way to increase logic volume output without touching master fader?

This has little to do with Logic, but with the output calibration of your D/A converter (often part of your sound card) and input calibration of your monitors. You should not set your mix fader levels based on external factors alone.

 

Most consumer or semi-pro converters cannot easily be calibrated or come with one factory setting. Some can be changed via internal jumper settings and some can be set via a control panel. My Lynx HiLo is set to 0 dBFS = +18dBu. The Duet uses unbalanced TRS outputs at -10 dBV.

 

With most pop/rock/electronic in-the-box mixes, using a peak reference of around -12 dBFS for the kick or snare drum will provide you with enough headroom to avoid digital overloads. I assume you are performing some compression and some limiting on the various tracks in the mix, and that no extreme spikes or errors occur.

 

This reference method will also avoid the internal overloading of dynamic or input attenuation-less plug-ins on sum busses or the stereo output. As mentioned earlier, internal overloads in fixed point plug-ins can still happen in an otherwise floating point mix environment, so mind your gain staging in all steps. You can read more about that subject in this thread: viewtopic.php?t=57055

 

I assume the "0" and +6" you refer to on the monitor is some kind of built-in output knob on the monitors, but it could be an input sensitivity knob (I am not personally familiar with your monitors).

 

The most practical solution in your case is probably to use the Duet as your monitor controller. This means setting the output on your monitors quite loud or at the maximum setting, and turning down on the Duet. You may experience a bit of extra hiss from your monitors. I cannot imagine using the knob(s) on the monitors is very practical unless you are sitting very close to them and they are stereo linked. If you prefer to control the output level on the monitors, then set the Duet for maximum output. Make sure that the input sensitivty on the monitors do not cause an input overload.

 

The fader entitled "Master" in Logic is in fact an offset fader, useful for surround monitoring purpose. It should be set to unity (0) and not adjusted further when mixing a regular stereo song. I have removed it and its duplicate slider in the Transport bar permanently in my templates, since I do not work with surround. The Stereo Output fader is what most people refer to as the master output. This can likely be kept at unity as well if you follow my advice above, though no harm is done by adjusting it. If you want to take the song for a quick test drive then add a limiter to the Stereo Output and crank it a bit.

 

Playing a commercially mastered track should sound much, much louder than your mix. Probably two to three times as loud, so be careful when A/B'ing. This is not an error, but indicates that you are mixing with reasonable headroom and healthy dynamics. This will lead to a better mix that will not only sound better, but will have the potential to be louder and/or more punchy during mastering.