apolychr Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 hello everyone, I am signing a contract with a label, i have not seen it yet, but are there certain things i should look out for? if you've heard of someone getting screwed, or the benefits of signing. cheers, apolychr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Jackson Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Get yourself a good lawyer to look it over before you sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 +1000 IMO, Scott gave you the ONLY advice you should take from perfect strangers on the internet. Get a lawyer. But not just any lawyer. You absolutely, without question, MUST get an entertainment lawyer for whom this isn't their first deal. if you've heard of someone getting screwed Everyone gets screwed unless you're a mega star (and even they're not immune). Remember that no negotiation over a contract will ever be 100% win-win for everyone. But you have to ask yourself a very serious question: what does "get screwed" actually mean? If the label only wants to pay 3/4 of the statutory rate for mechanicals, are you getting "screwed" over the remaining 25%? Perhaps you are. But in the big scheme of things it might be better to, say, fight for better terms regarding how much you have to recoup for promotion and let go of the 25% of your mechanicals. Naturally you have to look out for your interests, but you also have to choose your battles. ...or the benefits of signing... For starters, they pay for sh!t (though of course, you'll have to recoup before you see a profit). And they distribute your record and (hopefully) have a budget for promotion. Ultimately, if YOU don't know what the benefits are, you'd better start educating yourself, and fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolychr Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 thank you for the advice Ski and Scott. I absolutely do not have the financial back to hire a lawyer. I am aware of all the perks of being under a label haha and yes it is nice. from what i know i would be signing as an artist for 3 years, 20% royalties go to the label from ANY material i do. including anything to other labels and outside genres. does this make sense or seem regulatory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 i would be signing as an artist for 3 years, 20% royalties go to the label from ANY material i do. including anything to other labels and outside genres. does this make sense or seem regulatory? ... and what would the label do for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I absolutely do not have the financial back to hire a lawyer. Suggest you sell a kidney or something to raise the money because you really should not try to negotiate a label deal on your own. Seriously, don't do it without a lawyer. from what i know i would be signing as an artist for 3 years, 20% royalties go to the label from ANY material i do. including anything to other labels and outside genres. does this make sense or seem regulatory? This sounds like the terms of a "360 deal", where the label gets a percentage of everything you do. This type of deal is, apparently, what many labels are going for these days. it means that they get 20% of everything from sales to merchandising (should you go on tour). Again, I'm just a stranger on the internet, and regardless of my experience, you should find an entertainment lawyer to help you navigate this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eriksimon Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Aren't there any unions or nonprofit organisations that can offer some basic support in this? Or am I still overestimating American $olidarity? Dutch union: http://www.ntb.nl/index.php?id=6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 It would be nice if such a thing existed. However, I'd caution that with a 3-year term, you don't want to mess around. You need expert advice so that you understand the terms AND the commitment. To the OP... the very first thing you need to understand is copyright and publishing. There's a very good course offered on MacProVideo that addresses this (I think it's called Copyright 101). For perspective, I've been in the music business for over 25 years, and aside from the odd boutique project here and there, I work exclusively with A-list artists and producers. Still, I decided to watch that video as a kind of refresher course, and I learned a TON of stuff from it! And the information in that video will serve you regardless of what label you sign with. The reason I suggest learning about publishing is because of what you mentioned... if the label is looking for 20% of your royalties, does that include publishing? (The concept of "royalties" can potentially include everything from mechanicals to PRO-collected royalties (ASCAP, BMI) and so on). If publishing is included in their concept of "royalties" you have to understand how giving up 20% of that could affect the potential income stream -- especially after the terms of the deal expire. As far as record deals go, sure, you can do research on the internet to try and get a leg up. But please, don't fall into the trap of believing everything you read. There are far too many people out there claiming to be "experts" or "experienced" and even if what they're saying is true, keep in mind that every deal is different. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Jackson Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 To the OP... the very first thing you need to understand is copyright and publishing. There's a very good course offered on MacProVideo that addresses this (I think it's called Copyright 101). Here are some links to get you started learning about copyright. Registering your work with the Library of Congress is simple and inexpensive if you register complete albums or multiple albums at the same time. Copyright Basics International Copyright Relations of the United States U.S. Copyright Office Forms http://www.wikihow.com/Copyright-a-Song I would suggest filing electronically which is what I do. It's cheaper and you receive your certificate faster than if you send hard copies of the application and songs (though either way, the date of copyright is the date that you upload your application and song files or when they receive your physical submission). Click this link to file electronically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Everyone gets screwed unless you're a mega star (and even they're not immune). Yeah how many stories of mega stars getting screwed up!! Latest example in case, Leonard Cohen who thought he could trust his manager after a 17 years career with her.... she ended up running with the money. Results? Leonard Cohen, now 78, had to quickly get some old songs together to turn them into a "new" album and go back on tour to make some of his money back. http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/68095582.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev. Juda Sleaze Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Everyone gets screwed unless you're a mega star (and even they're not immune). Yeah how many stories of mega stars getting screwed up!! Latest example in case, Leonard Cohen who thought he could trust his manager after a 17 years career with her.... she ended up running with the money. Results? Leonard Cohen, now 78, had to quickly get some old songs together to turn them into a "new" album and go back on tour to make some of his money back. http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/68095582.html Yeah, that sucks! I was lucky enough to see Leonard Cohen play at Glastonbury Festival a couple of years ago, weirdly enough he followed Neil Diamond. Now, I've always preferred Mr. Cohen's music to Mr. Diamond's music by a country mile, but I expected Mr. Diamond to beat Leonard in the stage presence stakes. I was very wrong, Leonard cohen beat blew him out of the water with his charisma and charm. That guy really knows how to cast a spell over an audience, even an audience of many thousands who didn't pay to specifically see him. Amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravity Jim Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 20% of what? Synch? Record sales? BMI/ASCAP bucks? Are they taking part of your publishing? If not, who IS your publisher? What kind of promotion is possible? Are they getting other artists placed in TV and movies, or are you talking about signing with a "label" that will run off a couple hundred copies of your dance tracks on vinyl and take three years to sell them all? If you don't understand the revenue streams that are possible, then don't sign ANYthing. "Signed to a label" is a meaningless phrase... what you need to know is how money gets made in the music business, how much the label is giving you and what you'll owe them, who controls synch rights after the term of the deal expires, etc., etc., etc. Hell, I know people who are "signed to a label: that a crazy friend of mine runs out of his garage: what they get for their signing is my friend makes their CDs for them, which he insists on having hand-numbered and signed because he thinks it turns a CD into an individual work of art. They get no promotion, no advance money, absolutely nothing they couldn't get themselves from DIscmakers, and there is nothing in writing about future royalties on anything. In short, it has a name, and a tax ID number, but it is in now way an actual "label." Don't be a schmuck. If you are, in fact looking at signing a contract (and not just posting this on the internet because you think it sounds cool), then hire a lawyer or get boned. Having a guy who specializes in IP law take a look at the contract should cost less than what you paid for Logic plus a couple of VI's. If your career isn't worth that... I don't know what to tell you. People who make IP need lawyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolychr Posted January 12, 2013 Author Share Posted January 12, 2013 looks like i need to do some research here, and try to resourcefully find a lawyer or someone with comparable knowledge. thank you everyone for the comments and suggestions everyone. This is my first real step into the music industry so i figured others had gone through the same thing. WELL off to find a lawyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickMagick Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 know your terms and do some reading. . . and +infinity and beyond on a lawyer. . . Record companies, well major labels anyway have a habit of giving large advances making the artist think WOW a $30,000 cash advance. The problem is the artist's don't realize in the contract it states in accepting the advance they forfeit their right's to the master of their song or maybe some other garbage involving publishing or record sales being forfeited to the label. Make sure you let the lawyer know why how where and what you would like and what you don't and anything involving money, length of time under contract, advances, creative workflow make sure he let's you know if it's in there or not. I couldn't even fit it on this thread how many artists got signed to label's for the music they wrote than once they're signed, all creative freedom and workflow is taken away and they become a marionette for the masses. Prince and Warner anybody?? DO NOT let them take your creativity away because at the end of the day that's all we have as artists. . .Wish the best for you man and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolychr Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 cheers thank you nick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravity Jim Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 The first thing to read is "This Business of Music." It's the basic handbook and has been continually updated to reflect changes in the law and the markets. http://www.amazon.com/This-Business-Music-10th-Edition/dp/0823077233/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1358181964&sr=8-1&keywords=this+business+of+music In factm, thanks for the reminder... turns out I'm one edition behind. Just ordered the 10th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdee Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 thank you for the advice Ski and Scott. I absolutely do not have the financial back to hire a lawyer. I am aware of all the perks of being under a label haha and yes it is nice. from what i know i would be signing as an artist for 3 years, 20% royalties go to the label from ANY material i do. including anything to other labels and outside genres. does this make sense or seem regulatory? If you took Ski & Scott's advise and hired a Entertainment Lawyer then maybe you would be paying him with your signing bonus money he secured for you! Be careful because Record Labels can tie you up for a long time. Keep all of the Publishing Rights, Charge you for every aspect of Artist Development and even the Recording process (TLC comes to mind here) only to shelve your project for the tax write-off. I think you are making a huge mistake. And by coming on a website like this something in your gut is telling you the deal is not right. Don't be foolish! HIRE AN ATTORNEY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galacticus Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 a buddy of mine signed a deal without a lawyer, and now they own his percentage of rights to every composition with his name on it, forever. he was involved in writing a song of ours, and now, his label has the right to deny placement of OUR song, even though we aren't signed to his label. SO. you absolutely need a lawyer. if you can't get one, don't sign a deal. possible adverse consequences include but not limited to: not owning master or publishing rights to your music, which is realistically the only way labels can recoup their losses, so they will be aggressive here. This is also your main source of your income until your band gets big enough to make money on the road, which takes a lot of time. not owning merchandising or touring profits (watch out for this in "360 deals") loss of creative control, and hence, a larger possibility that they might shelve your record if THEY don't like it. and honestly so much other unscrupulous bologna that I can barely understand. if you haven't already, you should first get a manager, booking agent, lawyer, PR. etc. before you even think about a label. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apolychr Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 again thank you everyone for the advice. i will make sure i do the right thing here haha. CHEERS, apolychr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nublu Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 i will make sure i do the right thing here haha. CHEERS, apolychr More than merely the right thing. The quality of your life ... thing. Your Time. Your Energy. Your Resources. Your Health and Happiness. The lawyer (+100) is going to help you "craft" an agreement. The crafting process affords many creative opportunities to innovate and challenge existing assumptions. In my opinion you should challenge existing assumptions ... and create. I don't see a need to look for evil under every rock, because there are good people everywhere. However, the saying "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions" is cause for me to be somewhat wary. Having clear intentions and a "sense" of outcomes will help you and a lawyer connect. It thrives when you connect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robinloops Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Watch out for exclusivity contracts if you play/produce multiple styles of music. I knew one pianist that played both jazz and classical. His Jazz Swing band signed an exclusive contract with a Jazz label. Because he was prohibited from working on other labels and the label they had signed with was jazz only, his classical career was put on hold for several years (the contract was for 2 album releases in two years with an option for a third). Make sure, if you sign an exclusive contract for a particular style that your other styles and musical outlets are excluded (or at least addressed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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